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After all the crap that Google put in Android, I still don't understand why some other alternative ecosystems like Ubuntu Phone or GrapheneOS or Mankato (PinePh

After all the crap that Google put in Android, I still don't understand why some other alternative ecosystems like Ubuntu Phone or GrapheneOS or Mankato (PinePhone) aren't attractive for users and developers. What's holding everyone back? I understand that without users there won't be apps, but also without apps there won't be users, since they offer just the basics. Imagine if TikTok or WhatsApp have had an app for those others OSes

zeagle 4y ago
They only thing holding me back from calyxos is the lack of Android Auto. I know that it has its own privacy issues but man is it convenient with a compatible head unit. Its possible to add Android auto stubs to it to give privileged access, compile your own build, sign it, flash it, and install the apks yourself as a DIY middle ground. I did it for a pixel 6 and was happy with it but bootlooped the phone applying my first compiled OTA update so this scared me off trying it again and I went back to stock. I understand why the team is against it but unfortunate. Maybe another take on your question is why did windows phone and bbm fail?
iforgotpassword 4y ago
It is the Apps, and you perfectly summarized how it's a feedback loop. It wasn't the only reason why Windows phone failed, but it was one of them, even though Microsoft threw money at companies to at least have the most important apps available from pretty much day one. The app store still was pathetic and a lot of basic quality of life apps missing. And they kept going for what, 6 years before they announced they'll scrap it, and kept support going for another 4 years. Now imagine something new comes up, no matter how awesome the system is, no matter how well executed every move of the company behind it is: how much is a smartphone worth that doesn't have WhatsApp, Facebook, Google Maps, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, you name it. And no, the browser versions don't count. Heck, you can just use lineage os without the Google services to get a taste of this. And that's a system where you still can get all the Apps with a tiny bit of effort, as long as they don't depend on the Google services. It sucks for the most part. But really, since you asked, just try it. Get some used phone that's supported by lineage OS and challenge yourself to use it exclusively for a month. Or maybe for fun/hard mode, get a Lumia 950 and try that for a month.
- blep_ 4y ago
  > as long as they don't depend on the Google services A surprising and hilarious number of things, including some of Google's own apps, show "X won't work unless you enable Google Play Services" popups and then continue working just fine. (I'm guessing they link against some client library that shows that on all function calls, but then doesn't throw an exception.)
- jacooper 4y ago
  GrapheneOS has sandboxes google services, so almost all apps work, even services like google nearby share work too! The only exception is apps needing Safetynet with hardware attestation.
okamiueru 4y ago
There are plenty of projects. They aren't main stream because people are more than willing to sell their privacy for convenience. One such example is CalyxOS. Using it right now. It comes with both F-Droid and Aurora Store. The latter let's you download anonymously from the playstore.
deafpolygon 4y ago
Marketing. As an advertising company, they can pour billions into advertising their own products.
pkphilip 4y ago
Hardware support. Most of these distributions only work on very limited set of phone models
ancientworldnow 4y ago
Banking apps (not all but many), android auto, tap to pay. Those are three huge sacrifices for most people.

zeagle 4y ago

They only thing holding me back from calyxos is the lack of Android Auto. I know that it has its own privacy issues but man is it convenient with a compatible head unit. Its possible to add Android auto stubs to it to give privileged access, compile your own build, sign it, flash it, and install the apks yourself as a DIY middle ground. I did it for a pixel 6 and was happy with it but bootlooped the phone applying my first compiled OTA update so this scared me off trying it again and I went back to stock. I understand why the team is against it but unfortunate. Maybe another take on your question is why did windows phone and bbm fail?

iforgotpassword 4y ago

It is the Apps, and you perfectly summarized how it's a feedback loop. It wasn't the only reason why Windows phone failed, but it was one of them, even though Microsoft threw money at companies to at least have the most important apps available from pretty much day one. The app store still was pathetic and a lot of basic quality of life apps missing. And they kept going for what, 6 years before they announced they'll scrap it, and kept support going for another 4 years. Now imagine something new comes up, no matter how awesome the system is, no matter how well executed every move of the company behind it is: how much is a smartphone worth that doesn't have WhatsApp, Facebook, Google Maps, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, you name it. And no, the browser versions don't count. Heck, you can just use lineage os without the Google services to get a taste of this. And that's a system where you still can get all the Apps with a tiny bit of effort, as long as they don't depend on the Google services. It sucks for the most part. But really, since you asked, just try it. Get some used phone that's supported by lineage OS and challenge yourself to use it exclusively for a month. Or maybe for fun/hard mode, get a Lumia 950 and try that for a month.

blep_ 4y ago
> as long as they don't depend on the Google services A surprising and hilarious number of things, including some of Google's own apps, show "X won't work unless you enable Google Play Services" popups and then continue working just fine. (I'm guessing they link against some client library that shows that on all function calls, but then doesn't throw an exception.)
jacooper 4y ago
GrapheneOS has sandboxes google services, so almost all apps work, even services like google nearby share work too! The only exception is apps needing Safetynet with hardware attestation.

okamiueru 4y ago

There are plenty of projects. They aren't main stream because people are more than willing to sell their privacy for convenience. One such example is CalyxOS. Using it right now. It comes with both F-Droid and Aurora Store. The latter let's you download anonymously from the playstore.

deafpolygon 4y ago

Marketing. As an advertising company, they can pour billions into advertising their own products.

pkphilip 4y ago

Hardware support. Most of these distributions only work on very limited set of phone models

ancientworldnow 4y ago

Banking apps (not all but many), android auto, tap to pay. Those are three huge sacrifices for most people.