4 ms·

I think pay is one part of the problem of attracting the best teachers. Potentially an even bigger problem is just how much of the curriculum is dictated by fia

I think pay is one part of the problem of attracting the best teachers. Potentially an even bigger problem is just how much of the curriculum is dictated by fiat. We require them to get a Masters degree but then give them almost no autonomy. I'm not a teacher, but I feel like that's gotta hurt job satisfaction and be a big contributor to high teacher turnover/burnout. (quick Google says 8%/year leave the field entirely[0]) [0] https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/slc https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/slc

throwaway6734 4y ago
It's not just autonomy it's putting up with poor student behavior. There's no real power or respect in the profession. Stop bending over backwards to please parents. Punish and remove students that can't behave in the classroom. Culturally reward students that excel academically.
- kneebonian 4y ago
  Without a doubt all of the best teachers I know say the worst parts of their job is dealing with parents. Many of them who have talked about quitting have almost always cited the parents as the biggest problem. Also the worst parents are in the richest areas.
  - throwaway6734 4y ago
    This is highly dependent on where you teach. Teach in poor areas and student behavior is going to be your biggest issue because of bad parenting
    - Volundr 4y ago
      Uhhh... If you think rich kids are well behaved I've got some bad news for you. The rich parent is the one who is going to show up after the teacher disciplines a kid insisting their little darling would never do such a thing.
      - throwaway6734 4y ago
        Yes and the poor student is aggressive and violent because they've been bounced around foster homes because their mom is a junkie and their dad has never been in the picture. Rich parents can be bad, but it's not the same stress as dealing with students raised in environments that have completely normalized violence
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
        The solution is obvious from where I, a happily childless person, is sitting: The federal government takes over the school system from the states and makes every school a boarding school. Ban private schools. No children are all in a controlled environment with the same access to after-hours resources as all their peers. They do not have to deal with whatever home life fate dealt them and can focus on their education. They will all have access to the same nutritional standards. They will have access to counseling. They will have shelter. Move them around the country randomly every year or two to minimize local influences. Of course, aside from parents not being particularly happy with the idea of not seeing their kids all year, the biggest problem with this is that it is far too meritocratic and equal for most of the wealthy to stomach, and they'd be the ones largely paying for it.
  - sershe 4y ago
    Parents in rich areas, and kids in poor areas, according to teachers I know. I suspect "best teachers" introduces a selection bias for particular districts or private schools. It's kind of a choose your poison situation... either hyper-entitled parents (e.g. correcting a properly graded test to the point of claiming 2+2*2 = 8 was actually the correct answer), or kids that are at best on their phone all day, and at worst bring guns and drugs to school.
dcolkitt 4y ago
But this isn't just a case of politicians arbitrarily shackling teachers. Research has shown time and time again that standardizing curriculum results in better educational outcomes, particularly at the lower end of students and schools. In fact the evidence consistently shows that direct instruction is by far more effective than any other major pedagogical framework.[1] And this literally involves the teacher reading from a pre-packaged script. [1]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8476697/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8476697/
- salawat 4y ago
  ...It also happens to be the only method conducive to quantitative sampling methods at the expense of all qualitative evidence of the times it didn't work. One size fits all education is literally the propagation of inequality.

throwaway6734 4y ago

It's not just autonomy it's putting up with poor student behavior. There's no real power or respect in the profession. Stop bending over backwards to please parents. Punish and remove students that can't behave in the classroom. Culturally reward students that excel academically.

kneebonian 4y ago
Without a doubt all of the best teachers I know say the worst parts of their job is dealing with parents. Many of them who have talked about quitting have almost always cited the parents as the biggest problem. Also the worst parents are in the richest areas.
- throwaway6734 4y ago
  This is highly dependent on where you teach. Teach in poor areas and student behavior is going to be your biggest issue because of bad parenting
  - Volundr 4y ago
    Uhhh... If you think rich kids are well behaved I've got some bad news for you. The rich parent is the one who is going to show up after the teacher disciplines a kid insisting their little darling would never do such a thing.
    - throwaway6734 4y ago
      Yes and the poor student is aggressive and violent because they've been bounced around foster homes because their mom is a junkie and their dad has never been in the picture. Rich parents can be bad, but it's not the same stress as dealing with students raised in environments that have completely normalized violence
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
        The solution is obvious from where I, a happily childless person, is sitting: The federal government takes over the school system from the states and makes every school a boarding school. Ban private schools. No children are all in a controlled environment with the same access to after-hours resources as all their peers. They do not have to deal with whatever home life fate dealt them and can focus on their education. They will all have access to the same nutritional standards. They will have access to counseling. They will have shelter. Move them around the country randomly every year or two to minimize local influences. Of course, aside from parents not being particularly happy with the idea of not seeing their kids all year, the biggest problem with this is that it is far too meritocratic and equal for most of the wealthy to stomach, and they'd be the ones largely paying for it.
- sershe 4y ago
  Parents in rich areas, and kids in poor areas, according to teachers I know. I suspect "best teachers" introduces a selection bias for particular districts or private schools. It's kind of a choose your poison situation... either hyper-entitled parents (e.g. correcting a properly graded test to the point of claiming 2+2*2 = 8 was actually the correct answer), or kids that are at best on their phone all day, and at worst bring guns and drugs to school.

dcolkitt 4y ago

But this isn't just a case of politicians arbitrarily shackling teachers. Research has shown time and time again that standardizing curriculum results in better educational outcomes, particularly at the lower end of students and schools. In fact the evidence consistently shows that direct instruction is by far more effective than any other major pedagogical framework.[1] And this literally involves the teacher reading from a pre-packaged script. [1]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8476697/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8476697/

salawat 4y ago
...It also happens to be the only method conducive to quantitative sampling methods at the expense of all qualitative evidence of the times it didn't work. One size fits all education is literally the propagation of inequality.