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Perhaps because $60k is not actually that much for what we ask of our public school teachers. HN: $100k/yr to write webshit is a poverty wage! Also HN: $60k/y

Perhaps because $60k is not actually that much for what we ask of our public school teachers. HN: $100k/yr to write webshit is a poverty wage! Also HN: $60k/yr is too much for the people we expect to educate our children!

hammock 4y ago
I don't believe there is a strong or even weak correlation between teachers' salaries and educational outcomes. Chicago teachers get paid the most yet their schools are among the worst in the nation. Private school teachers get paid less than public but produce better outcomes. Etc. There are other, far more important factors we ought to be paying attention to
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  > Private school teachers get paid less than public but produce better outcomes. I'd like a citation for that. I can't help but imagine that private schools game the numbers, because when I worked for a school district that's what I saw: private schools can easily get rid of underperforming students and pretty much never take any with disabilities.
  - hammock 4y ago
    The most recent NAEP data shows what other research has found: Private school students score better in almost all subjects. https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/dashboards/schools_dashboard.aspx https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/dashboards/schools_dashboa... On college entry tests such as the SAT, NAIS found that students in private schools consistently out-performed their public school peers in all subject areas. https://www.nais.org/magazine/independent-school/spring-2016/independent-schools-and-the-sat/ https://www.nais.org/magazine/independent-school/spring-2016...
    - Jcowell 4y ago
      I don’t doubt that private schools teacher have students that score better than public school students (we can argue the weight of all the factors later) and I don’t think GP is doubting that. His doubt is that private teachers that are paid less than public school teachers provide better results. To prove the original assertion you need to include the income levels of these private school teachers and graph them against the performance and income level of the public school teachers.
- tptacek 4y ago
  Cite a source on Chicago schools being "the worst in the nation"? Chicago is a huge city, and large tracts of it are locked into generational poverty as a result of redlining, which sets up a vicious cycle with low-performing schools in those areas. It does not follow that the whole CPS system is the worst in the nation, and given state rankings and the population distribution of Illinois, that in fact seems very unlikely to be true. But maybe you have a source that says otherwise.
QuarterReptile 4y ago
No one could achieve all that we ask of our public school teachers, because the set of tasks does not lie within the realm of reality to accomplish, and most municipalities would go bankrupt before they finished trying to atone for that fact by dumping truckloads of money on teachers. Despite all that, those teachers choose to work in those jobs. Are manning shortfalls at public schools significantly more than in other comparable sectors of the economy?

hammock 4y ago

I don't believe there is a strong or even weak correlation between teachers' salaries and educational outcomes. Chicago teachers get paid the most yet their schools are among the worst in the nation. Private school teachers get paid less than public but produce better outcomes. Etc. There are other, far more important factors we ought to be paying attention to

AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
> Private school teachers get paid less than public but produce better outcomes. I'd like a citation for that. I can't help but imagine that private schools game the numbers, because when I worked for a school district that's what I saw: private schools can easily get rid of underperforming students and pretty much never take any with disabilities.
- hammock 4y ago
  The most recent NAEP data shows what other research has found: Private school students score better in almost all subjects. https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/dashboards/schools_dashboard.aspx https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/dashboards/schools_dashboa... On college entry tests such as the SAT, NAIS found that students in private schools consistently out-performed their public school peers in all subject areas. https://www.nais.org/magazine/independent-school/spring-2016/independent-schools-and-the-sat/ https://www.nais.org/magazine/independent-school/spring-2016...
  - Jcowell 4y ago
    I don’t doubt that private schools teacher have students that score better than public school students (we can argue the weight of all the factors later) and I don’t think GP is doubting that. His doubt is that private teachers that are paid less than public school teachers provide better results. To prove the original assertion you need to include the income levels of these private school teachers and graph them against the performance and income level of the public school teachers.
tptacek 4y ago
Cite a source on Chicago schools being "the worst in the nation"? Chicago is a huge city, and large tracts of it are locked into generational poverty as a result of redlining, which sets up a vicious cycle with low-performing schools in those areas. It does not follow that the whole CPS system is the worst in the nation, and given state rankings and the population distribution of Illinois, that in fact seems very unlikely to be true. But maybe you have a source that says otherwise.

QuarterReptile 4y ago

No one could achieve all that we ask of our public school teachers, because the set of tasks does not lie within the realm of reality to accomplish, and most municipalities would go bankrupt before they finished trying to atone for that fact by dumping truckloads of money on teachers. Despite all that, those teachers choose to work in those jobs. Are manning shortfalls at public schools significantly more than in other comparable sectors of the economy?