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Teachers don’t work year round. So that 60k salary if adjusted to days worked + pension benefits is equivalent to six figures in the private sector.
by bushbaba 4y ago
Teachers don’t work year round. So that 60k salary if adjusted to days worked + pension benefits is equivalent to six figures in the private sector.
- asddubs 4y agoteachers still have to exist in society all year round though
- PaulHoule 4y agoThen they get a summer job. I remember an elementary school teacher from when I was a kid who was a park ranger in the summer.
- sjm 4y agoDo you realize how dystopian that is?
- TigeriusKirk 4y agoPeople working year round is dystopian?
- russh 4y agoYes, I too work 12 months of the year.
- Loughla 4y agoYes, but you do the work of your main profession that you are an expert in, and are compensated appropriately. You don't do a side job bagging groceries or lifeguarding in the summers to be able to maintain living in a home you own. Legitimate question, do you not see the difference?
- PaulHoule 4y agoI'll say that elementary school teacher who worked as a park ranger in the summer got a good deal as he still had a government job and instead of paying for a gym membership he got paid to walk around in a beautiful place all summer. I'm sure most teachers don't have it so good but if one were trying to improve the current system you might try to create jobs that are complementary with teaching jobs. Teaching is one of those areas like software development where the social contradictions are intense because it is a labor intensive practice with very little capital spending (think how the final assembly people on a car have a huge "gun" that hangs from the ceiling and looks like something out of Doom that screws all 5 nuts for a wheel with perfect torque in one shot.) Schools are also funded out of property taxes which are rather regressive and limit the ability of schools to be funded by people who have a huge amount of money and instead pits teachers against people who don't make $60,000 a year and who don't get a few months off in the summer.
- patchorang 4y agoOne of the best teachers I ever had was our middle school chemistry teacher. He had to lifeguard during the summer to support his family. That seems pretty crazy to me.
- mrweasel 4y agoWouldn't summer be the perfect time to update their knowledge? University students are of on vacation, meaning that the professors are available to train the school teachers.
- paulryanrogers 4y agoMany teachers have CE requirements they must fulfill over the summer, and summer breaks in some places are as short as 6 weeks. Some teachers may do the minimum and find the role and their summers relaxing. Yet for the best outcomes and challenging districts it's far from a 'cushy' job.
- davidmichael 4y agoAttempting to get a seasonal job, year after year, for just 2-3 months a year would be difficult. My wife is a former school teacher and she spent a considerable amount of time planning and working on things for the next school year. If teachers are expected to all work over summer break to make ends meet then their performance will suffer. I'd argue that a better approach for teachers and education in general would be to move to more year-round schooling.
- throwaway5959 4y agoWhat does your wife do now?
- ethanbond 4y agoFrankly all this stuff boils down to “you get what you pay for.” And for a long time, the US has gotten a lot more than they paid for because there are people willing to take huge hits on QOL and pay to help kids. But really the folks who have always been antagonistic to teachers showed their cards through the pandemic when they staked out the position that teachers are public enemy #1 for not wanting to literally risk their lives for a public that treats them like a punching bag year in and year out. You know, stupid “Teachers’ Nights” at baseball games aside. If you want a gradual regression to abysmal education, sure, pay ‘em pennies and then we can instead pay for an uneducated populace via higher crime rates, lower civic participation, lower economic productivity, higher welfare burden, more homelessness, etc etc. Good trade!
- klyrs 4y agoMost of the teachers I know spend their summers on professional development. Taking classes, often paying out of pocket, to improve their knowledge base and teaching skills. If they were in the profession just for money, sure, they might just get a job and phone it in.
- sowuttho 4y agoA random teacher in any school across the US has done more for society in real terms than you have in a decade. You could be part of the open data movement and a researcher in your spare time not stocking grocery store shelves. Yes I’m suggesting your credentials are worthless. Why do we need full time university researcher role play when millions the world over are “researching” software engineering? There are far fewer teachers. Sounds like a pay rebalancing given market realities is in order. Coders are everywhere. Minimum wage for them!
- rhino369 4y agoThey shouldn't have their salary entirely prorated, but having a two month vacation during summer, one week spring break, and two week winter break is a huge benefit that should be considered when analyzing their compensation. Especially since they can make extra by teaching summer school, camps, taking other summer jobs.
- madsbuch 4y agoNot American, so a couple of questions: 1. Is it normal for teachers to have alternative income for the days they don't work? 2. Sounds like the term "six figures" has a special meaning other than just being in the range 100.000 - 999.999? It appears like there is a connotation that it is a special things to achieve in your life. 3. Taking inflation into account, shouldn't it soon be normal to earn that amount (when including pensions and benefits like health, which I know is expensive).
- mynameisvlad 4y agoAnswering #2, six figures refers to the number of digits in your paycheck, so 100k+ Lmao the downvotes are hilarious. I literally am explaining something the parent comment wanted to know. They didn't even have the bit about "100.000-999.999" when this comment was posted, as evidenced by another person quoting the original comment and the commenter saying they clarified the question.
- kube-system 4y agoAnd for the international audience, Americans cite salaries pre-tax. So a $100,000 salary means people earn somewhere around $80,000 after tax depending on their situation and where they live. And then further deduct benefits and retirement savings from that. About $60,000 might actually hit your bank account if you have a 100k salary.
- patchorang 4y ago1. Yes a lot of teacher have different summer jobs. 2. Means at least 100,000 3. Yes, it should be normal.
- dkarl 4y agoWorking most of the year as teachers means they can't make much at that summer job, though. I had a high school biology teacher who worked as lab tech in the summers, which she described as low-level work that she did just because she loved being in the lab. She was extremely sharp, but I don't think there was any way she could have trained for a more difficult position or taken on any higher responsibility when she couldn't stay on the job for more than a few months at a time. That was the only teacher I had who had any summer job that required education, except maybe for teachers who worked at a family business during the summer.
- sjm 4y agoTeachers do more work outside of their standard hours than most other professions. I dated a teacher for a long time and she worked much harder for her public school salary (waking up at 6am, prepping, lesson planning, grading, chasing up kids who aren't making it to school, dealing with social workers, etc.), than I do for my cushy six-figure tech job salary. Besides, why shouldn't teachers make six-figures? Why are teachers treated like this in the US?
- ethbr0 4y ago> Besides, why shouldn't teachers make six-figures? Exactly. Compared to what I do, educating 15-20 future citizens and adults seems on par. And to your broader point, indeed, the average US teacher at this point is 1/5 lesson planning, 3/5 instruction, 1/10 social worker, and 1/10 data entry/report filing.
- option 4y agoTeachers should make six figures, the best ones should make seven like couches do now. And it should be very easy to fire bad ones. Basically should be at will employment with school district.
- ethbr0 4y ago> at will employment with school district This is thorny, because it gets into the problems tenure was created to combat: school administration's goals aren't always student success. Especially now, they can be myopically assessment-focused or political. Subordinating teachers to the whim of administration wouldn't help this. Jury-of-their-peers is slightly better, but has its own issues.
- beeftime 4y agogood
- walthamstow 4y agoGood? If you want maths taught by actual maths grads, then you will need six figure salaries to attract them.
- macinjosh 4y agoNo one needs a math grad to teach 3rd grade math. That would be a huge waste of money and expertise.
- teucris 4y agoMore specifically, teaching is a different skill than knowing. Excellent math teachers are very different than math majors - in some ways it’s less complex (eg pushing the boundaries of the field of mathematics), and in others it is far more (understanding the human psyche and how to effectively communicate abstract concepts).
- pathartl 4y agoThat's the problem, they don't want kids to actually learn. They view teachers as glorified babysitters.
- badlucklottery 4y agoThis. A lot of districts are also trying to add some computer science curriculum but can't find anyone to teach it. 60k is extremely low for CS grads in any moderately-sized city but they might be willing to make that trade for two months off in the summer.
- rhino369 4y agoSchools wouldn't hire math grads even if they could pay them six figure salaries. You'll just end up paying the same type of people you have now six figures.
- SCdF 4y agoI am not american, but both my parents were teachers, and they absolutely worked all year round, and longer than 8hr days. There are such a things as lesson plans, and marking homework, and being asked to do extra work such as editing the school paper, or coaching basketball, or whatever. This idea that teachers work the same hours they are physically inside school and nothing else is laughable. Though regardless, entry level software developers in the united states get six figures out of the gate, so it seems remarkably reasonable.
- zwirbl 4y agoTeachers do create massive amounts of value for the society at large, so that would likely be very appropriate
- JustSomeNobody 4y agoGreat! They deserve it.
- akomtu 4y agoAsjusted to inflation, 100k today are worth about as much as 60k two years ago.
- callahad 4y agoAssuming Wolfram Alpha's CPI data is correct, I think you'd have to go back to 2002 for $100k now to be worth $60k then: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=%2460%2C000+from+2002 https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=%2460%2C000+from+2002
- akomtu 4y agoI prefer the Coffee Purchasing Index, Costco Purchasing Index and Car Purchasing Index instead. Those don't lie.
- mempko 4y agoWhy shouldn't teachers make six figures? I mean after all, half the people here just put buttons on websites and get paid six figures.
- macinjosh 4y agoBecause teacher salaries, like the salaries of people here, should be determined by the market not by warm and fuzzy feelings.
- Loughla 4y agoOkay then. What is the market value of a well-educated society?
- paulryanrogers 4y agoMarket solves everything! Like that train derailment in Ohio! Certainly no need for a collective organization to step in to oversee clean up or preventative measures in the future.
- Zetice 4y agoThe market is too cruel to be left to take care of America's children.
- mempko 4y agoWhy? the market has huge flaws. For example, most money is held by a very small amount of people. Should the market solve for them or for the vast number of people? The market has externalities, which is a huge flaw in pricing things. This is a known studied problem with markets. Third, it's one of many optimization processes. If you understand machine learning, you understand that there are different models, different solution spaces, and optimizations (learning) on them requires different techniques. Why should we rely on a highly flawed optimization process like the market to decide these important things in society? Democratic and consensus building is another way to come to these complex decisions without relying on 'spot trade' and pricing restrictions that the market has. "The Market" is a technology. Thinking the market solves everything is like saying vacuum-tubes should be used in all electronics. Like, have you ever wondered why, at your work place, there aren't markets? Why don't most large successful companies have market dynamics internally if the market solves all organizational issues?
- sqlcommando 4y agoGood teachers are worth six figures easily.
- dividefuel 4y agoI don't understand these comparisons. Sure, the pay per hour worked might be the same as someone who works full time year around and earns $100k annually. But that doesn't mean teachers are paid $100k. They're still paid $60k. It's a $60k job with some large blocks of time off.
- sowuttho 4y agoHow dare we reap privilege on babysitters freeing devops engineers to copy-paste off stackoverflow
- blueblob 4y agoThat's a tiring argument that's reiterated every time teacher pay is involved. Most teachers also don't get the luxury of working 9-5, they have to do additional planning and grading outside of hours. Also, if you want to compare with the private sector, there are teachers in the private sector who make more.
- adamsmith143 4y agoAdjusted salary doesn't pay your mortgage.