4 ms·

>> It's like giving someone a deck of cards and telling them that these cards can only be used to play blackjack. You can't invent a card game, or change the ru

>> It's like giving someone a deck of cards and telling them that these cards can only be used to play blackjack. You can't invent a card game, or change the rules, or build a house of cards, or do card magic. Millions of people buy cards that can only be used to specifically only play, say; 'Magic: the Gathering' (MtG). You could probably invent some sort of new game with MtG cards, or do some sort of card magic with them (no pun intended); but MtG cards are very intentionally not designed to be 'general purpose' cards or tools to design new card games with. They have a very specific audience in mind. Magic the Gathering cards are also much more expensive than a regular deck of playing cards I can grab from my local dollar store. They have a lot less utility than said cards I can acquire for a $1.15CDN, taxes in; and they also have a bit of a stigma from people who seem to not like MtG for various reasons. Somehow, still; it's one of the largest and most widely played card or tabletop games in the world; easily - and it's got an enthusiastic community of passionate and fascinating people. Is Magic: the Gathering ruining card games? It is 'an offence against the entire notion of' what card games are? Fuck no. Apple isn't some offence to the notion of computers, either. Maybe it's not to your taste, but just because a product is designed for a specific set of purposes or utilities that don't suit your preference doesn't mean you have to jump to the dramatic conclusion that these products are 'ruining' the entire notion of what a product is. It's just a different product. Get over it, and use a different one. Take a valium and realize people like and use different things, and that's okay. On a side note, I develop hobbyist apps for WatchOS, iOS, MacOS, the web; and SEGA Saturn, all on my Mac; and I've never had any issues actually achieving the results I wanted.

smoldesu 4y ago
> It is 'an offence against the entire notion of' what card games are? It would be if a WOTC employee came to my table every time I tried playing, personally overseeing every turn of the game to ensure that I didn't break the rules, engage in unsportsmanlike conduct, use my imagination, taunt my opponent or profit unfairly with their platform.
- livrem 4y ago
  No, that kind of thing only happens with Games Workshop games, from what I hear.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Even tabletop gamers are not gullible enough to fall for an agreement that bad.
mandmandam 4y ago
Magic is such a weird example to use... People play their own games with it, with their own rules, literally all the time - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_formats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_formats The above link is nowhere near close to exhaustive. Many of the formats on it were made up by fans, and then eventually made quasi "official" once a popularity threshold was reached, like Commander. In fact, the entire premise, from the get-go of Magic: The Gathering was incredibly flexible modularity. Every time you change your deck, you're 'changing the rules' of the game. It's Turing complete, and people have made some really wacky stuff with MTG cards. And, there's no small amount of proxying going on. Many, if not most Commander players allow a few proxy cards. High level tournament preparation involves 100% proxies. Online platforms allow you to play with any card in Magic's history for free, if you're willing to don the pirate hat; and if not, you can play MTGO or Arena.
orangecat 4y ago
You could probably invent some sort of new game with MtG cards And people did, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_Commander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_Commander, which is now the most popular MtG format. So yes, even in this case the freedom to explore and experiment is good.
- danaris 4y ago
  Except that's not really a different game; it's merely a slight change of format. It changes the recommended card count (100 cards per deck rather than 60), adds two significant restrictions (one copy of each non-land card per deck; only colors that match those on the Commander's card), and one significant new mechanic (the Commander, who doesn't have to be in your hand to be cast), but otherwise it is played exactly as the standard 60-card game.
livrem 4y ago
> Millions of people buy cards that can only be used to specifically only play, say; 'Magic: the Gathering' (MtG). I love that example, since I have thousands of Magic The Gathering cards, but I have never played the game ever. The cards are very useful and I don't care what game they are meant for. Like many others I use Magic cards for print'n'play card games. Print out cards on regular paper, cut out, and put in sleeves with a cheap Magic card behind as backing.

smoldesu 4y ago

> It is 'an offence against the entire notion of' what card games are? It would be if a WOTC employee came to my table every time I tried playing, personally overseeing every turn of the game to ensure that I didn't break the rules, engage in unsportsmanlike conduct, use my imagination, taunt my opponent or profit unfairly with their platform.

livrem 4y ago
No, that kind of thing only happens with Games Workshop games, from what I hear.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Even tabletop gamers are not gullible enough to fall for an agreement that bad.

mandmandam 4y ago

Magic is such a weird example to use... People play their own games with it, with their own rules, literally all the time - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_formats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_formats The above link is nowhere near close to exhaustive. Many of the formats on it were made up by fans, and then eventually made quasi "official" once a popularity threshold was reached, like Commander. In fact, the entire premise, from the get-go of Magic: The Gathering was incredibly flexible modularity. Every time you change your deck, you're 'changing the rules' of the game. It's Turing complete, and people have made some really wacky stuff with MTG cards. And, there's no small amount of proxying going on. Many, if not most Commander players allow a few proxy cards. High level tournament preparation involves 100% proxies. Online platforms allow you to play with any card in Magic's history for free, if you're willing to don the pirate hat; and if not, you can play MTGO or Arena.

orangecat 4y ago

You could probably invent some sort of new game with MtG cards And people did, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_Commander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_Commander, which is now the most popular MtG format. So yes, even in this case the freedom to explore and experiment is good.

danaris 4y ago
Except that's not really a different game; it's merely a slight change of format. It changes the recommended card count (100 cards per deck rather than 60), adds two significant restrictions (one copy of each non-land card per deck; only colors that match those on the Commander's card), and one significant new mechanic (the Commander, who doesn't have to be in your hand to be cast), but otherwise it is played exactly as the standard 60-card game.

livrem 4y ago

> Millions of people buy cards that can only be used to specifically only play, say; 'Magic: the Gathering' (MtG). I love that example, since I have thousands of Magic The Gathering cards, but I have never played the game ever. The cards are very useful and I don't care what game they are meant for. Like many others I use Magic cards for print'n'play card games. Print out cards on regular paper, cut out, and put in sleeves with a cheap Magic card behind as backing.