4 ms·

Agreed. Chatgpt is a tool. It's an immature tool. It's an occasionally hilarious tool,or disturbing, or weird. It's also occasionally a useful tool. I'm amused

Agreed. Chatgpt is a tool. It's an immature tool. It's an occasionally hilarious tool,or disturbing, or weird. It's also occasionally a useful tool. I'm amused by the two camps who don't recognize the existence of other : 1. Chatgpt is criminally dangerous and should not be available 2. chatgpt is unreasonably crippled and over guarded and they should release it unleashed into the wild There are valid points for each perspective. Some people can only see one of them though.

simonw 4y ago
For me there's a really big different between shipping a language model as a standalone chatbot (ChatGPT) and shipping it as a search engine. I delight at interacting with chatbots, and I'm OK using them even though I know they frequently make things up. I don't want my search engine to make things up, ever.
- iinnPP 4y ago
  I thought the consensus was that Google search was awful and rarely produced a result to the question asked. I certainly get that a lot myself when using Google search. I have also had ChatGPT outperform Google in some aspects, and faceplant on others. Myself, I don't trust any tool to hold an answer, and feel nobody should. To me, the strange part of the whole thing is how much we forget that we talk to confident "wrong" people every single day. People are always confidently right about things they have no clue about.
  - qbasic_forever 4y ago
    Asking Google when Avatar 2 is playing near me instantly gives a list of relevant showtimes: https://www.google.com/search?q=when+is+avatar+2+playing+near+me&oq=when+is+avatar+2+playing+near+me https://www.google.com/search?q=when+is+avatar+2+playing+nea... With Bing ChatGPT it went on a rant trying to tell the user it was still 2022...
    - iinnPP 4y ago
      Ok. I don't have access to confirm this is how it works. Did Microsoft change the date limit on the training data though? ChatGPT doesn't have 2022 data. From 2021, that movie isn't out yet. ChatGPT doesn't understand math either. I don't need to spend a lot of time with it to determine this. Just like I don't need to spend much time learning where a hammer beats a screwdriver.
      - misnome 4y ago
        From the prompt leakage it looks like it is allowed to initiate web searches and integrate/summarise the information from the results of that search. It also looks like it explicitly tells you when it has done a search.
        iinnPP 4y ago
        I am left wondering then what information takes priority, if any. It has 4 dates to choose from and 3 timeframes of information. A set of programming to counter people being malicious is also there to add to the party. You do seem correct about the search thing as well, though I wonder how that works and which results it is using.
  - eternalban 4y ago
    > I thought the consensus was that Google search was awful Compared to what it was. Awful is DDG (which I still have as default but now I am banging g every single time since it is useless). I also conducted a few comparative GPT assisted searches -- prompt asks gpt to craft optimal search queries -- and plugged in the results into various search engines. ChatGPT + Google gave the best results. I got basically the same poor results from Bing and DDG. Brave was 2nd place.
    - iinnPP 4y ago
      That is a great approach for me to look into. Thanks for sharing.
  - rustyminnow 4y ago
    > People are always confidently right about things they have no clue about. I'm going to get pedantic for a second and say that people are not ALWAYS confidently wrong about things they have no clue about. Perhaps they are OFTEN confidently wrong, but not ALWAYS. And you know, I could be wrong here, but in my experience it's totally normal for people to say "I don't know" or to make it clear when they are guessing about something. And we as humans have heuristics that we can use to gauge when other humans are guessing or are confidently wrong. The problem is ChatGPT very very rarely transmits any level of confidence other than "extremely confident" which makes it much harder to gauge than when people are "confidently wrong."
    - pixl97 4y ago
      I think the issue here is ChatGPT is behaving like a child that was not taught to say "I don't know". I don't know is a learned behavior and not all people do this. Like on sales calls where someone's trying to push a product I've seen the salepeople confabulate bullshit rather than simply saying "I can find out for you, let me write that down".
      - rustyminnow 4y ago
        Well, I think you are right - ChatGPT should learn to say "I don't know". Keep in mind that generating BS is also a learned behavior. The salesperson probably learned that it is a technique that can help make sales. The key IMO is that it's easier to tell when a human is doing it than when ChatGPT is doing it.
      - danaris 4y ago
        The deeper issue is that ChatGPT cannot accurately determine whether it "knows" something or not. If its training data includes rants by flat-earthers, then it may "know" that the earth is flat (in addition to "knowing" that it is round). ChatGPT does not have a single, consistent model of the world. It has a bulk of training data that may be ample in one area, deficient in another, and strongly self-contradictory in a third.
      - danans 4y ago
EGreg 4y ago
Simple. ChatGPT is a bullshit generator that can pass not just a turing test by many people but even if it didn’t — it could be used to generate bullshit at scale … that can generate articles and get them reshared more than legit ones, gang up on people in forums who have a different point of view, destroy communities and reputations easily. So both can be true!
- spookthesunset 4y ago
  Even more entertaining is when you consider all this bullshit it generated will get hoovered back into the next iteration of the LLM. At some point it might well be 99% of the internet is just bullshit written by chatbots trained by other chatbots output. And how the hell could you ever get your chatbot to recognize its output and ignore it so it doesn't get in some kind of weird feedback loop?
JohnFen 4y ago
I'm not in either camp. I think both are rather off-base. I guess I'm in the wilderness.

simonw 4y ago

For me there's a really big different between shipping a language model as a standalone chatbot (ChatGPT) and shipping it as a search engine. I delight at interacting with chatbots, and I'm OK using them even though I know they frequently make things up. I don't want my search engine to make things up, ever.

iinnPP 4y ago
I thought the consensus was that Google search was awful and rarely produced a result to the question asked. I certainly get that a lot myself when using Google search. I have also had ChatGPT outperform Google in some aspects, and faceplant on others. Myself, I don't trust any tool to hold an answer, and feel nobody should. To me, the strange part of the whole thing is how much we forget that we talk to confident "wrong" people every single day. People are always confidently right about things they have no clue about.
- qbasic_forever 4y ago
  Asking Google when Avatar 2 is playing near me instantly gives a list of relevant showtimes: https://www.google.com/search?q=when+is+avatar+2+playing+near+me&oq=when+is+avatar+2+playing+near+me https://www.google.com/search?q=when+is+avatar+2+playing+nea... With Bing ChatGPT it went on a rant trying to tell the user it was still 2022...
  - iinnPP 4y ago
    Ok. I don't have access to confirm this is how it works. Did Microsoft change the date limit on the training data though? ChatGPT doesn't have 2022 data. From 2021, that movie isn't out yet. ChatGPT doesn't understand math either. I don't need to spend a lot of time with it to determine this. Just like I don't need to spend much time learning where a hammer beats a screwdriver.
    - misnome 4y ago
      From the prompt leakage it looks like it is allowed to initiate web searches and integrate/summarise the information from the results of that search. It also looks like it explicitly tells you when it has done a search.
      - iinnPP 4y ago
        I am left wondering then what information takes priority, if any. It has 4 dates to choose from and 3 timeframes of information. A set of programming to counter people being malicious is also there to add to the party. You do seem correct about the search thing as well, though I wonder how that works and which results it is using.
- eternalban 4y ago
  > I thought the consensus was that Google search was awful Compared to what it was. Awful is DDG (which I still have as default but now I am banging g every single time since it is useless). I also conducted a few comparative GPT assisted searches -- prompt asks gpt to craft optimal search queries -- and plugged in the results into various search engines. ChatGPT + Google gave the best results. I got basically the same poor results from Bing and DDG. Brave was 2nd place.
  - iinnPP 4y ago
    That is a great approach for me to look into. Thanks for sharing.
- rustyminnow 4y ago
  > People are always confidently right about things they have no clue about. I'm going to get pedantic for a second and say that people are not ALWAYS confidently wrong about things they have no clue about. Perhaps they are OFTEN confidently wrong, but not ALWAYS. And you know, I could be wrong here, but in my experience it's totally normal for people to say "I don't know" or to make it clear when they are guessing about something. And we as humans have heuristics that we can use to gauge when other humans are guessing or are confidently wrong. The problem is ChatGPT very very rarely transmits any level of confidence other than "extremely confident" which makes it much harder to gauge than when people are "confidently wrong."
  - pixl97 4y ago
    I think the issue here is ChatGPT is behaving like a child that was not taught to say "I don't know". I don't know is a learned behavior and not all people do this. Like on sales calls where someone's trying to push a product I've seen the salepeople confabulate bullshit rather than simply saying "I can find out for you, let me write that down".
    - rustyminnow 4y ago
      Well, I think you are right - ChatGPT should learn to say "I don't know". Keep in mind that generating BS is also a learned behavior. The salesperson probably learned that it is a technique that can help make sales. The key IMO is that it's easier to tell when a human is doing it than when ChatGPT is doing it.
    - danaris 4y ago
      The deeper issue is that ChatGPT cannot accurately determine whether it "knows" something or not. If its training data includes rants by flat-earthers, then it may "know" that the earth is flat (in addition to "knowing" that it is round). ChatGPT does not have a single, consistent model of the world. It has a bulk of training data that may be ample in one area, deficient in another, and strongly self-contradictory in a third.
    - danans 4y ago

EGreg 4y ago

Simple. ChatGPT is a bullshit generator that can pass not just a turing test by many people but even if it didn’t — it could be used to generate bullshit at scale … that can generate articles and get them reshared more than legit ones, gang up on people in forums who have a different point of view, destroy communities and reputations easily. So both can be true!

spookthesunset 4y ago
Even more entertaining is when you consider all this bullshit it generated will get hoovered back into the next iteration of the LLM. At some point it might well be 99% of the internet is just bullshit written by chatbots trained by other chatbots output. And how the hell could you ever get your chatbot to recognize its output and ignore it so it doesn't get in some kind of weird feedback loop?

JohnFen 4y ago

I'm not in either camp. I think both are rather off-base. I guess I'm in the wilderness.