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Will be interesting to see how this rolls out. Former Tesla, current CCS charging EV owner myself. Most assume it will basically be accomplished by exclusively

Will be interesting to see how this rolls out. Former Tesla, current CCS charging EV owner myself. Most assume it will basically be accomplished by exclusively building out new locations with the new "magic dock" CCS adapter. Even this is fine with me given that Tesla not only has far more stations than CCS competition in US, but they are also building out new stations more rapidly too.. so the lead only grows. Also note that every Tesla location is 8+ stalls, often up to 16 stalls, and I'd say the average location is now 12 stalls.. and they all work 99.9% of the time. EA/evGo/etc CCS networks tend to install pathetic 4 stall stations that have perpetually 1 or more stalls out of service. 3500 chargers / 12 charger average location = under 300 locations, vs total existing ~1700 current locations. For those complaining about Tesla gaming this or something, I'd point more of a finger at the CCS networks who are installing the minimally compliant (4 stall) locations at an alarmingly slow rate. They are leaving money on the table, and giving customers a bad experience. Happy to see Tesla come in and give them a run for the money.

vel0city 4y ago
> given that Tesla not only has far more stations than CCS competition in US Given you've said "stations" separately from "stalls", this is not true. https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=ELEC&ev_levels=dc_fast&ev_connectors=J1772COMBO https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/fi... 6,134 results for DC Fast CCS chargers, 1,841 results for DC Fast Tesla. There are more Tesla stalls, but there are fewer locations.
- steveBK123 4y ago
  OK I probably am putting on blinders and mixing some words up.. But the problem with CCS is a lot of these stats count BS unnetworked, poorly maintained, single-stalls 50kW stations sitting in car dealer parking lots only usable 9a-5p, and stuff like that. Checking the ones on the map near me, and it includes a bunch of CCS stations I've never seen actually working, stuff in government parking lots not available to public, and lots and lots of dealer special chargers which are of limited access.. If you were able to filter on "150kW+ L3 charging" the 6k number would probably drop to 2-3k maybe best case. Which would result in something like 2.5k stations x 4 stalls => 10k CCS stalls, vs 1.8k Tesla stations x 12 stalls = 22k stalls.
  - vel0city 4y ago
    Isn't 2.5-3.0 still a larger number than 1.8? I'm definitely not arguing CCS has more stalls, as I do agree most CCS deployments are like 2-4 stalls while the average Tesla one is like 8 and its somewhat common to find stations with 10+. In the end, you said there are more "stations", and made a clear delineation of "stations" vs "stalls". This is incorrect, there are more CCS stations than Tesla. There are probably way more Tesla stalls, I'm pretty sure.
- steveBK123 4y ago
  Better comparison via the websites- http://fastcharger.info http://fastcharger.info https://supercharge.info https://supercharge.info Or you can use a site with more advanced filters like https://www.plugshare.com https://www.plugshare.com
  - steveBK123 4y ago
    For example, on an 85mi drive I frequently take, for a wide definition of "on the way", inclusive of 5-10mi detours off highway, there are: Total 25 CCS stalls with 120kW+ charging vs 118 Tesla stalls on the same route From experience I also know the Tesla stalls will be 99.9% up whereas the CCS ones will be 75-90% on any given date. "25 stalls in 85mi" might to a non-EV owner sound like fine, quite a lot, but think about that as like.. only having 3 gas stations within a 2 hour drive, in the most congested, population dense area of the US. Not great.
    - vel0city 4y ago
      I do agree CCS networks need to work on uptime, even 90% availability per stall is unacceptable to me. However, there's probably more than 4x the number of Teslas versus CCS cars on the road today in the US. What's the ratio of Tesla cars/Tesla stalls vs CCS cars/CCS stalls on that route currently? If there's 118 Tesla stalls that are constantly in use versus 25 which are rarely used, which is going to be easier to find a place to charge right away? So counting the stalls seems to be a bit of a misnomer to me at this point. Maybe if CCS cars was a similar number on the roads, but in the end as a CCS user I care more about there being more locations and uptime than having more stalls that sit empty all the time.
      - steveBK123 4y ago
        I have a CCS car, and I love it, but this is despite the charging network not because of it. The ratio of cars:chargers is probably pretty good, or maybe even better for CCS, in a perverse way because Tesla has such a sales lead. Unfortunately CCS networks in the Northeast tend to install themselves well off the highway in back corners of giant shopping center or mall parking lots. Route I used to take on my Tesla without leaving the highway, or only needing to leave the highway for 1 mile, instead require large detours for CCS. NJTP for example has been a mess for CCS by compare, though it should be better, eventually, with the EvGo partnership. I95/Rt15 through CT is similarly very bad.

vel0city 4y ago

> given that Tesla not only has far more stations than CCS competition in US Given you've said "stations" separately from "stalls", this is not true. https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=ELEC&ev_levels=dc_fast&ev_connectors=J1772COMBO https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/fi... 6,134 results for DC Fast CCS chargers, 1,841 results for DC Fast Tesla. There are more Tesla stalls, but there are fewer locations.

steveBK123 4y ago
OK I probably am putting on blinders and mixing some words up.. But the problem with CCS is a lot of these stats count BS unnetworked, poorly maintained, single-stalls 50kW stations sitting in car dealer parking lots only usable 9a-5p, and stuff like that. Checking the ones on the map near me, and it includes a bunch of CCS stations I've never seen actually working, stuff in government parking lots not available to public, and lots and lots of dealer special chargers which are of limited access.. If you were able to filter on "150kW+ L3 charging" the 6k number would probably drop to 2-3k maybe best case. Which would result in something like 2.5k stations x 4 stalls => 10k CCS stalls, vs 1.8k Tesla stations x 12 stalls = 22k stalls.
- vel0city 4y ago
  Isn't 2.5-3.0 still a larger number than 1.8? I'm definitely not arguing CCS has more stalls, as I do agree most CCS deployments are like 2-4 stalls while the average Tesla one is like 8 and its somewhat common to find stations with 10+. In the end, you said there are more "stations", and made a clear delineation of "stations" vs "stalls". This is incorrect, there are more CCS stations than Tesla. There are probably way more Tesla stalls, I'm pretty sure.
steveBK123 4y ago
Better comparison via the websites- http://fastcharger.info http://fastcharger.info https://supercharge.info https://supercharge.info Or you can use a site with more advanced filters like https://www.plugshare.com https://www.plugshare.com
- steveBK123 4y ago
  For example, on an 85mi drive I frequently take, for a wide definition of "on the way", inclusive of 5-10mi detours off highway, there are: Total 25 CCS stalls with 120kW+ charging vs 118 Tesla stalls on the same route From experience I also know the Tesla stalls will be 99.9% up whereas the CCS ones will be 75-90% on any given date. "25 stalls in 85mi" might to a non-EV owner sound like fine, quite a lot, but think about that as like.. only having 3 gas stations within a 2 hour drive, in the most congested, population dense area of the US. Not great.
  - vel0city 4y ago
    I do agree CCS networks need to work on uptime, even 90% availability per stall is unacceptable to me. However, there's probably more than 4x the number of Teslas versus CCS cars on the road today in the US. What's the ratio of Tesla cars/Tesla stalls vs CCS cars/CCS stalls on that route currently? If there's 118 Tesla stalls that are constantly in use versus 25 which are rarely used, which is going to be easier to find a place to charge right away? So counting the stalls seems to be a bit of a misnomer to me at this point. Maybe if CCS cars was a similar number on the roads, but in the end as a CCS user I care more about there being more locations and uptime than having more stalls that sit empty all the time.
    - steveBK123 4y ago
      I have a CCS car, and I love it, but this is despite the charging network not because of it. The ratio of cars:chargers is probably pretty good, or maybe even better for CCS, in a perverse way because Tesla has such a sales lead. Unfortunately CCS networks in the Northeast tend to install themselves well off the highway in back corners of giant shopping center or mall parking lots. Route I used to take on my Tesla without leaving the highway, or only needing to leave the highway for 1 mile, instead require large detours for CCS. NJTP for example has been a mess for CCS by compare, though it should be better, eventually, with the EvGo partnership. I95/Rt15 through CT is similarly very bad.