3 ms·

I always assumed that the dualism of modern Christianity and Islam came from Zoroastrianism - it's not an obvious feature of a monotheistic religion and it must

I always assumed that the dualism of modern Christianity and Islam came from Zoroastrianism - it's not an obvious feature of a monotheistic religion and it must have come from somewhere. That said, I suppose we're removed enough from the source material that it's very hard to be sure. But is there a competing theory for the origin of dualism in these religions?

monocasa 4y ago
What I've heard from religious scholars is that they think Christianity's dualism seems pretty inspired by Zoroastrianism, with the added insight that Judaism was originally polytheistic. There's therefore a lot of underlying assumptions in the religion primed for the idea of multiple god-like entities.
- dc-programmer 4y ago
  The theory I’ve heard is that Christianity’s dualism was inherited from Second Temple Judaism’s cosmology. During that time there was a lot more interest in angels and demons among certain Jewish sects. In turn these beliefs may have been a result of syncretism with Zoroastrianism.
  - wahern 4y ago
    Yazidism, which has roots at least as deep as Judaism, is built around angels: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidism The easy answer regarding adoption of angels is simply that angels figured prominently in multiple religions and cultures in that region for at least as long as we can look back; what would be surprising is any religion from that region lacking angels. Angels may have been a background fact that you might not think to question at all, even if you sat down to deliberately concoct a religion. I'm curious what everybody means when they refer to dualism in this thread, because AFAIU there are several different kinds of philosophies that can be called dualist, and while we can connect dots between them, some of them are arguably contradictory. A theistic dualism as in traditional Judaism and Christianity which merely posits that the essence (or at least an essence) of the godhead is distinct from physical creation (cf. pantheism) is quite different from a moralist dualism that posits a universe defined by a struggle between goodness and evil. Elements of the latter can also be found in Christianity and Judaism, but that results in tension, and for that reason moral dualism is less prominent in those religions notwithstanding that some sects and strains (present and historic) really embrace it.
    - falaki 4y ago
      I would say both. Early Judaism didn't have the concept of a "source of bad" (Satan, etc). Similarly, early Judaism didn't have the concept of paradise and hell. Zoroastrianism is the first known major religion that introduced the conflict between a good God, Ahuramazda, and an evil spirit. Humans have a choice in this conflict and that's how the morality is defined. Based on their choice they can end up in Pardise (a Persian concept <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise>) or hell <https://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/hell-i https://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/hell-i>
ch4s3 4y ago
Manichaeism probably had a lot of influence on early Christianity including introducing dualism, but its hard to say. St Augustine started his religious journey as with Manichaeism and it certainly influenced his thinking and writing which in turn influenced later Christian thinkers.
commentreply1 4y ago
What does "dualism of ... Islam" refer to?
- SuoDuanDao 4y ago
  presumably Halal and Haram, but I'm not a Muslim scholar nor do I live in a Muslim culture. I do know that Christian culture has a (and used to have a much stronger) preoccupation with a struggle between god and the devil.

monocasa 4y ago

What I've heard from religious scholars is that they think Christianity's dualism seems pretty inspired by Zoroastrianism, with the added insight that Judaism was originally polytheistic. There's therefore a lot of underlying assumptions in the religion primed for the idea of multiple god-like entities.

dc-programmer 4y ago
The theory I’ve heard is that Christianity’s dualism was inherited from Second Temple Judaism’s cosmology. During that time there was a lot more interest in angels and demons among certain Jewish sects. In turn these beliefs may have been a result of syncretism with Zoroastrianism.
- wahern 4y ago
  Yazidism, which has roots at least as deep as Judaism, is built around angels: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidism The easy answer regarding adoption of angels is simply that angels figured prominently in multiple religions and cultures in that region for at least as long as we can look back; what would be surprising is any religion from that region lacking angels. Angels may have been a background fact that you might not think to question at all, even if you sat down to deliberately concoct a religion. I'm curious what everybody means when they refer to dualism in this thread, because AFAIU there are several different kinds of philosophies that can be called dualist, and while we can connect dots between them, some of them are arguably contradictory. A theistic dualism as in traditional Judaism and Christianity which merely posits that the essence (or at least an essence) of the godhead is distinct from physical creation (cf. pantheism) is quite different from a moralist dualism that posits a universe defined by a struggle between goodness and evil. Elements of the latter can also be found in Christianity and Judaism, but that results in tension, and for that reason moral dualism is less prominent in those religions notwithstanding that some sects and strains (present and historic) really embrace it.
  - falaki 4y ago
    I would say both. Early Judaism didn't have the concept of a "source of bad" (Satan, etc). Similarly, early Judaism didn't have the concept of paradise and hell. Zoroastrianism is the first known major religion that introduced the conflict between a good God, Ahuramazda, and an evil spirit. Humans have a choice in this conflict and that's how the morality is defined. Based on their choice they can end up in Pardise (a Persian concept <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise>) or hell <https://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/hell-i https://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/hell-i>

ch4s3 4y ago

Manichaeism probably had a lot of influence on early Christianity including introducing dualism, but its hard to say. St Augustine started his religious journey as with Manichaeism and it certainly influenced his thinking and writing which in turn influenced later Christian thinkers.

commentreply1 4y ago

What does "dualism of ... Islam" refer to?

SuoDuanDao 4y ago
presumably Halal and Haram, but I'm not a Muslim scholar nor do I live in a Muslim culture. I do know that Christian culture has a (and used to have a much stronger) preoccupation with a struggle between god and the devil.