5 ms·

One of the reasons I never buy apple products. They seem to control everything and cannot support such a company

Forgeties79 4y ago
How do you get around it though? Genuinely asking. I guess you try to source your own parts outside of controlling companies and only work on open source OS's and software run by super transparent groups? It just seems like a ton of work for something that might not even be viable. I don't know how I could possibly operate outside of apple, microsoft, google, etc. all of which have massive ethical issues. To be very clear I'm not saying "it's hopeless why bother you're wrong" etc. I'm just curious what your solution(s) is. I'd love to decouple myself from these groups as much as I can over time.
- ouid 4y ago
  [flagged]
- nequo 4y ago
  > How do you get around it though? Genuinely asking. Parent only talked about Apple so it could be that they're running Windows on a "PC" instead. But Linux is also perfectly usable. If you're someone who tinkers with hobby projects, I don't see how it could be a real impediment. Everything that you would do on a mac is available to you, except for Xcode which is mainly for projects that target Apple devices anyway.
  - Forgeties79 4y ago
    I'm a video producer (and do a lot of editing) so codec/NLE compatibility is absolutely paramount. I've always been weary of swapping to linux because of that.
- __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
  These are general purpose computers. It ought to be possible to access their compute in ways that are not influenced by their manufacturer. For instance, even though I hate google with a passion, I got this $150 android tablet and I've been using https://github.com/t184256/nix-on-droid https://github.com/t184256/nix-on-droid to access pretty much the same tools that I use on my Linux desktop. I have the same setup on my Android phone. I was at the university library the other day, surrounded by windows machines (I'm no fan of Microsoft either), and I wanted a big screen and keyboard, so I ran https://github.com/yudai/gotty https://github.com/yudai/gotty on my phone and used a browser on the windows box to access the nix-enabled shell on my phone, which had everything I need, configured how I like it. Other times I'll use a google cloud shell, clone my nix config, and have the same experience there. Sure, I'm relying on Google and Microsoft in some capacity here and there, but I've reduced my reliance on software that they wrote to the point where they're pretty much just a dumb pipe between me and the hardware. They might be able to break my workflow, but that's about the limit of their control. Unlike Apple, they'd rather attempt to control me in other ways so they don't break my workflow. They're ok with failing a certain percentage of the time, after all they're still getting my money. Apple doesn't seem to be able to let go to that degree.
- sowbug 4y ago
  Apple products are good but not unique. Plenty of alternatives exist. There are some people who prefer to be friends only with other friends whose iMessage bubbles are the right color. That problem solves itself through attrition. Developing for that ecosystem is a tougher question, because Apple has made it hard to do so legally without buying their products. But if your objections are based on personal values, presumably you'd also avoid supporting their ecosystem by developing for it. The upside of an ecosystem that thrives on brand exclusivity is that it's really easy to exclude it.
  - Forgeties79 4y ago
    >Apple products are good but not unique. Plenty of alternatives exist. It's less about Apple and more that I need to be able to stably/reliably run Adobe Premiere, FCPX, DaVinci Resolve, and more + plug-ins
    - sowbug 4y ago
      As someone else pointed out, your reply expanded the parent's concern from anti-Apple to anti-all-big-tech. My reply continued with the original "I never buy Apple products" sentiment. I'm not an Apple fan. I don't have much of a problem with the other companies. Switch to Windows. All those programs are available on that platform (I have never heard of FCPX, so that might be an exception). You'll be just as productive, and you won't find the ecosystem as stifling as Apple's.
      - fragmede 4y ago
        FCPX = Final Cut Pro X, Apple's NLE. Almost all the same functionality can be found in the other NLEs, but if your workflow involves handling client's FCPX (and/or iMovie - which is very popular on iPhone) projects, you're forced to use macOS.
- jacooper 4y ago
  You try step by step. Run grapheneOS, use f-droid, try open source alternatives and so on. Its not complete, you still need a pixel which is made by google, and might also need google services for some apps, but its still better than doing nothing.
  - Forgeties79 4y ago
    I've gotten off chrome and now use firefox + Proton VPN, so browsing I've done to some degree. I think Gmail is the next thing to go then Gdrive. The issue I'm having is ditching the Apple ecosystem. I've been editing on Apple machines for over a decade in Premiere/FCPX/DaVinci Resolve/etc. and the idea of breaking it all down - losing probably 70% of my plug-ins due to licensing restrictions, for instance - and moving over to /rebuilding on Linux or something is just so intimidating. Not to mention I have to buy/build a new computer. It just seems like so much work and I worry it will threaten my ability to do my job.
    - jacooper 4y ago
      I am a Linux user, I will say just save your time and stay on macOS. Unless all you use is just davinci resolve (PRO), which works on Linux well (RHEL/Rocky with more steps needed for others), Creative apps on Linux are still not good enough.
      - Forgeties79 4y ago
        Appreciate the insight!
- ramkumar-kr 4y ago
  > How do you get around it though? In a limited capacity, web apps might help. They won’t be able to cover all cases, but to have a viewer or a remote access/control cases, they are free to use.
- blihp 4y ago
  It all depends on how far you're willing to go. If you merely object to Apple's iron fist approach, you've got Windows for desktop/laptop and Android for mobile. For some of us, that's not good enough and so we opt for a fully open source (typically Linux) solution. The advantage is that this gives you a world of options (think SBCs and all sorts of IoT-scale doodads) but often has the disadvantage of lacking polish and being on your own when things go wrong especially if you opt for one of the lesser used devices/platforms. (i.e. non-x86/ARM or a unique configuration/form factor) One thing that will absolutely not work: buying Apple products and thinking they'll change direction on this. They are immensely profitable so from their vantage point everything is fine. Short of large numbers of customers jumping ship or government action, things are going to keep going in the current direction.
- the_common_man 4y ago
  I use Android and Linux. I selfhost my cloud services using cloudron to avoid the big g. I will be the first to admit that the end solution is substandard compared to apple but freedom has its price (and i am happy to fight the fight)
__MatrixMan__ 4y ago
It sucks because in so many other ways they're the least evil, but somehow I have a harder time tolerating: > You can't do that When the others are all shouting: > Hey do this irrelevant thing
- toyg 4y ago
  You have a harder time tolerating the first option because the power is taken away from you, whereas in the second it still lies with you.
ubermonkey 4y ago
What are some other examples of "controlling everything" that Apple engages in? I mean, I ask, because I haven't found that to be the case with OS X at all. iOS is indeed a walled garden, and I think it's a stronger platform BECAUSE of it (though I understand that this view is heretical at HackerNews). If I wanted to build Apple apps, yeah, I'd pay the $99. I don't do that now -- no time -- but I have in the past. I can install any software I want on my Macs. I have greater control of my experience on the Mac than I do on the abomination that Windows has become, and I still get access to software with a level of finish that remains super rare under Linux.

How do you get around it though? Genuinely asking. I guess you try to source your own parts outside of controlling companies and only work on open source OS's and software run by super transparent groups? It just seems like a ton of work for something that might not even be viable. I don't know how I could possibly operate outside of apple, microsoft, google, etc. all of which have massive ethical issues. To be very clear I'm not saying "it's hopeless why bother you're wrong" etc. I'm just curious what your solution(s) is. I'd love to decouple myself from these groups as much as I can over time.

ouid 4y ago
[flagged]
nequo 4y ago
> How do you get around it though? Genuinely asking. Parent only talked about Apple so it could be that they're running Windows on a "PC" instead. But Linux is also perfectly usable. If you're someone who tinkers with hobby projects, I don't see how it could be a real impediment. Everything that you would do on a mac is available to you, except for Xcode which is mainly for projects that target Apple devices anyway.
- Forgeties79 4y ago
  I'm a video producer (and do a lot of editing) so codec/NLE compatibility is absolutely paramount. I've always been weary of swapping to linux because of that.
__MatrixMan__ 4y ago
These are general purpose computers. It ought to be possible to access their compute in ways that are not influenced by their manufacturer. For instance, even though I hate google with a passion, I got this $150 android tablet and I've been using https://github.com/t184256/nix-on-droid https://github.com/t184256/nix-on-droid to access pretty much the same tools that I use on my Linux desktop. I have the same setup on my Android phone. I was at the university library the other day, surrounded by windows machines (I'm no fan of Microsoft either), and I wanted a big screen and keyboard, so I ran https://github.com/yudai/gotty https://github.com/yudai/gotty on my phone and used a browser on the windows box to access the nix-enabled shell on my phone, which had everything I need, configured how I like it. Other times I'll use a google cloud shell, clone my nix config, and have the same experience there. Sure, I'm relying on Google and Microsoft in some capacity here and there, but I've reduced my reliance on software that they wrote to the point where they're pretty much just a dumb pipe between me and the hardware. They might be able to break my workflow, but that's about the limit of their control. Unlike Apple, they'd rather attempt to control me in other ways so they don't break my workflow. They're ok with failing a certain percentage of the time, after all they're still getting my money. Apple doesn't seem to be able to let go to that degree.
sowbug 4y ago
Apple products are good but not unique. Plenty of alternatives exist. There are some people who prefer to be friends only with other friends whose iMessage bubbles are the right color. That problem solves itself through attrition. Developing for that ecosystem is a tougher question, because Apple has made it hard to do so legally without buying their products. But if your objections are based on personal values, presumably you'd also avoid supporting their ecosystem by developing for it. The upside of an ecosystem that thrives on brand exclusivity is that it's really easy to exclude it.
- Forgeties79 4y ago
  >Apple products are good but not unique. Plenty of alternatives exist. It's less about Apple and more that I need to be able to stably/reliably run Adobe Premiere, FCPX, DaVinci Resolve, and more + plug-ins
  - sowbug 4y ago
    As someone else pointed out, your reply expanded the parent's concern from anti-Apple to anti-all-big-tech. My reply continued with the original "I never buy Apple products" sentiment. I'm not an Apple fan. I don't have much of a problem with the other companies. Switch to Windows. All those programs are available on that platform (I have never heard of FCPX, so that might be an exception). You'll be just as productive, and you won't find the ecosystem as stifling as Apple's.
    - fragmede 4y ago
      FCPX = Final Cut Pro X, Apple's NLE. Almost all the same functionality can be found in the other NLEs, but if your workflow involves handling client's FCPX (and/or iMovie - which is very popular on iPhone) projects, you're forced to use macOS.
jacooper 4y ago
You try step by step. Run grapheneOS, use f-droid, try open source alternatives and so on. Its not complete, you still need a pixel which is made by google, and might also need google services for some apps, but its still better than doing nothing.
- Forgeties79 4y ago
  I've gotten off chrome and now use firefox + Proton VPN, so browsing I've done to some degree. I think Gmail is the next thing to go then Gdrive. The issue I'm having is ditching the Apple ecosystem. I've been editing on Apple machines for over a decade in Premiere/FCPX/DaVinci Resolve/etc. and the idea of breaking it all down - losing probably 70% of my plug-ins due to licensing restrictions, for instance - and moving over to /rebuilding on Linux or something is just so intimidating. Not to mention I have to buy/build a new computer. It just seems like so much work and I worry it will threaten my ability to do my job.
  - jacooper 4y ago
    I am a Linux user, I will say just save your time and stay on macOS. Unless all you use is just davinci resolve (PRO), which works on Linux well (RHEL/Rocky with more steps needed for others), Creative apps on Linux are still not good enough.
    - Forgeties79 4y ago
      Appreciate the insight!
ramkumar-kr 4y ago
> How do you get around it though? In a limited capacity, web apps might help. They won’t be able to cover all cases, but to have a viewer or a remote access/control cases, they are free to use.
blihp 4y ago
It all depends on how far you're willing to go. If you merely object to Apple's iron fist approach, you've got Windows for desktop/laptop and Android for mobile. For some of us, that's not good enough and so we opt for a fully open source (typically Linux) solution. The advantage is that this gives you a world of options (think SBCs and all sorts of IoT-scale doodads) but often has the disadvantage of lacking polish and being on your own when things go wrong especially if you opt for one of the lesser used devices/platforms. (i.e. non-x86/ARM or a unique configuration/form factor) One thing that will absolutely not work: buying Apple products and thinking they'll change direction on this. They are immensely profitable so from their vantage point everything is fine. Short of large numbers of customers jumping ship or government action, things are going to keep going in the current direction.
the_common_man 4y ago
I use Android and Linux. I selfhost my cloud services using cloudron to avoid the big g. I will be the first to admit that the end solution is substandard compared to apple but freedom has its price (and i am happy to fight the fight)

__MatrixMan__ 4y ago

It sucks because in so many other ways they're the least evil, but somehow I have a harder time tolerating: > You can't do that When the others are all shouting: > Hey do this irrelevant thing

toyg 4y ago
You have a harder time tolerating the first option because the power is taken away from you, whereas in the second it still lies with you.

ubermonkey 4y ago

What are some other examples of "controlling everything" that Apple engages in? I mean, I ask, because I haven't found that to be the case with OS X at all. iOS is indeed a walled garden, and I think it's a stronger platform BECAUSE of it (though I understand that this view is heretical at HackerNews). If I wanted to build Apple apps, yeah, I'd pay the $99. I don't do that now -- no time -- but I have in the past. I can install any software I want on my Macs. I have greater control of my experience on the Mac than I do on the abomination that Windows has become, and I still get access to software with a level of finish that remains super rare under Linux.