5 ms·

Scientists ‘switch off’ autism symptoms in mice using $3 epilepsy drug

17 points by throwayyy479087 4y ago

i_cannot_hack 4y ago
Clarification for those only reading the comments: This is in laboratory mice, not humans.
- PaulHoule 4y ago
  People are going to try it off label though.
- amerkhalid 4y ago
  Lately, I have been programmed to append "in mice" in any headline related to drugs. Unless headlines says something like FDA approved. EDIT: I meant to say "append in my head".
  - Turing_Machine 4y ago
    I mod down anyone whose comment is essentially nothing but "in mice". It's just a way of being smugly dismissive without adding anything of value to the conversation.
- tgv 4y ago
  One cannot stress the significance of that. Our minds are not like mice. We understand dogs, but we don't get cats. Their mind works differently. Rodents differ at least as much as cats from us. Autism in mice, regardless of similarties in behavior or name, cannot be compared to autism in humans.
hannob 4y ago
In mice. Also the article completely fails to even mention the troubling ethical issues with such a drug if it works.
- Mountain_Skies 4y ago
  It's odd to think what impact this would have on those taking it, as autism is part of their personality. For some, it could end up being a net negative for them.
  - GuB-42 4y ago
    Maybe for high functioning, fully self-sufficient autists whose condition is more of a personality trait. But I can't imagine it being the case for those who essentially can't survive without assistance. It would be like the "net negative" of someone in a wheelchair who can now walk again and therefore lose access to welfare benefits and handicapped parking spots. Now maybe some people in wheelchairs think their handicap is part of how they are and want to keep it, but I would be surprised if it wasn't at best a tiny minority.
  - AstralStorm 4y ago
    If it's net negative, you discontinue the treatment. That easy. We're not talking treating non-speech children here.
- viraptor 4y ago
  What do you have in mind specifically? I can think of some mild issues that are similar for any behaviour-affecting drugs, but it sounds like there's more?
  - PaulHoule 4y ago
    Anti-epilepsy drugs are frequently similar to benzodiazepines and other "downers" in that they tend to "switch off" all kinds of behaviors. I'm sure the average autist who took three Klonopin would be laying down appearing to be asleep and wouldn't be exhibiting "autistic behaviors" for a day or so.
    - adwi 4y ago
      You should do some research on the drug they’re actually citing, Lamictal (lamotragine), if this is the impression you have/share with others. It in no way is a “downer”, and is often given semi-offlabel interchangeably with standard SSRIs for depression. Also the article quotes $3/pill but is widely available as generic for < $.10/pill. If this deeply studied—in humans—and readily accessible drug provides an option for those who seek treatment, wonderful.
celestialcheese 4y ago
Here's the source study since the NYPost is garbage - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-023-01959-7?utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=commission_junction&utm_campaign=CONR_PF018_ECOM_GL_PHSS_ALWYS_DEEPLINK&utm_content=textlink&utm_term=PID100093539&CJEVENT=a108e446ad4511ed8048004f0a1cb825 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-023-01959-7?utm_mediu...
werber 4y ago
What did it turn off in mice? After reading this I have no idea what this does
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
el_don_almighty 4y ago
Side effects include, but are not limited to: - constant urge to leave tiny, cigar-shaped turds all over the house along the edge of the walls - chewing through the bottom corner of cereal boxes instead of opening the top - uncontrollable urge to procreate - licking your hands and forearms before cleaning your face with them - chewing through your own pex plumbing for no apparent reason
- AstralStorm 4y ago
  Side effects include: - not being a mouse - lamotrigine potentially turning a person into a mental zombie/fatigued (My own personal experience for another indication) - other side effects of lamotrigine some of which are rare but deadly It might be worth it to try if it's better than standard treatment. Which means, shut up researcher and run an RCT.

i_cannot_hack 4y ago

Clarification for those only reading the comments: This is in laboratory mice, not humans.

PaulHoule 4y ago
People are going to try it off label though.
amerkhalid 4y ago
Lately, I have been programmed to append "in mice" in any headline related to drugs. Unless headlines says something like FDA approved. EDIT: I meant to say "append in my head".
- Turing_Machine 4y ago
  I mod down anyone whose comment is essentially nothing but "in mice". It's just a way of being smugly dismissive without adding anything of value to the conversation.
tgv 4y ago
One cannot stress the significance of that. Our minds are not like mice. We understand dogs, but we don't get cats. Their mind works differently. Rodents differ at least as much as cats from us. Autism in mice, regardless of similarties in behavior or name, cannot be compared to autism in humans.

hannob 4y ago

In mice. Also the article completely fails to even mention the troubling ethical issues with such a drug if it works.

Mountain_Skies 4y ago
It's odd to think what impact this would have on those taking it, as autism is part of their personality. For some, it could end up being a net negative for them.
- GuB-42 4y ago
  Maybe for high functioning, fully self-sufficient autists whose condition is more of a personality trait. But I can't imagine it being the case for those who essentially can't survive without assistance. It would be like the "net negative" of someone in a wheelchair who can now walk again and therefore lose access to welfare benefits and handicapped parking spots. Now maybe some people in wheelchairs think their handicap is part of how they are and want to keep it, but I would be surprised if it wasn't at best a tiny minority.
- AstralStorm 4y ago
  If it's net negative, you discontinue the treatment. That easy. We're not talking treating non-speech children here.
viraptor 4y ago
What do you have in mind specifically? I can think of some mild issues that are similar for any behaviour-affecting drugs, but it sounds like there's more?
- PaulHoule 4y ago
  Anti-epilepsy drugs are frequently similar to benzodiazepines and other "downers" in that they tend to "switch off" all kinds of behaviors. I'm sure the average autist who took three Klonopin would be laying down appearing to be asleep and wouldn't be exhibiting "autistic behaviors" for a day or so.
  - adwi 4y ago
    You should do some research on the drug they’re actually citing, Lamictal (lamotragine), if this is the impression you have/share with others. It in no way is a “downer”, and is often given semi-offlabel interchangeably with standard SSRIs for depression. Also the article quotes $3/pill but is widely available as generic for < $.10/pill. If this deeply studied—in humans—and readily accessible drug provides an option for those who seek treatment, wonderful.

celestialcheese 4y ago

Here's the source study since the NYPost is garbage - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-023-01959-7?utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=commission_junction&utm_campaign=CONR_PF018_ECOM_GL_PHSS_ALWYS_DEEPLINK&utm_content=textlink&utm_term=PID100093539&CJEVENT=a108e446ad4511ed8048004f0a1cb825 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-023-01959-7?utm_mediu...

werber 4y ago

What did it turn off in mice? After reading this I have no idea what this does

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

el_don_almighty 4y ago

Side effects include, but are not limited to: - constant urge to leave tiny, cigar-shaped turds all over the house along the edge of the walls - chewing through the bottom corner of cereal boxes instead of opening the top - uncontrollable urge to procreate - licking your hands and forearms before cleaning your face with them - chewing through your own pex plumbing for no apparent reason

AstralStorm 4y ago
Side effects include: - not being a mouse - lamotrigine potentially turning a person into a mental zombie/fatigued (My own personal experience for another indication) - other side effects of lamotrigine some of which are rare but deadly It might be worth it to try if it's better than standard treatment. Which means, shut up researcher and run an RCT.