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The difference is we used to care what was in those vaccines and their effects, not just that everyone got them no matter the cost/benefit ratio. I don't mind s

The difference is we used to care what was in those vaccines and their effects, not just that everyone got them no matter the cost/benefit ratio. I don't mind smallpox vaccines but putting kids on subscription vaccines for a disease that has no risk for them is just brain dead. And this was known before they were rolled out in that age group. It was entirely political at that point.

hotpotamus 4y ago
I'm not really aware of the risk/reward levels of different vaccines for different age groups, but to imply that we used to care about what got put into vaccines but no longer do seems quite silly - the "vaccines cause autism" idea got going in the early 90's. But low as the risks of either may be, I wonder - did more children die of covid or of covid vaccination?
- worksonmine 4y ago
  Almost no children died of covid, a rounding error. It wasn't a problem for them and shouldn't have been made out to be. Old people died from the flu before covid but we didn't vaccinate kids to protect them back then, what changed? The problem is we really don't know what effects mRNA can have and anyone who claims they do are lying. So why was it pushed so hard?
  - hotpotamus 4y ago
    I've gotten an annual flu shot since adolescence and I'd recommend that everyone of every age do so as well, mostly because of the consequences I suffered when I failed to do so. Again, I'm far from an expert, but I've been told that RNA vaccines have been studied for a couple decades now, but the recent vaccines were the first widespread use. But won't a virus deliver several orders of magnitude more RNA to you anyway? Speaking for myself, I've personally known many people including myself who have gotten a variety of vaccines with zero long term consequences, though I did have one friend who gets knocked on his ass for a day or two by them. It's those that chose to forgo the vaccine who have suffered life altering consequences as a result. I actually was talking to a friend yesterday who's thinking about applying for disability since he's tried several times to return to his job as a waiter and been too weak to do the job. Of course, new technologies will always have the risk of novel effects I suppose. Frankly if I had kids, I'd be more concerned about their constant attachment to phones/tablets and social media like Tiktok or the like. It's hard for me to tell if that's just me getting old and grumpy about technology or if these are in fact new and novel risks, but it's impossible not to notice all the children being carted around with their faces essentially attached to some screen or other.
    - worksonmine 4y ago
      Interesting, I know that some middle-aged people do get flu shots but never met one. To me it's something the elderly need. I'm raised with the notion that a little bacteria now and then is only good for me. My vaccine is the disease. But don't get me wrong, I don't blame anyone who got the shot, I'm questioning those in power who had the same data I did but still claimed it was so necessary for everyone and their mother to get vaccinated or the world would go to shit. If you looked at the numbers it was just a bad flu season. They definitely knew because I knew, from their own official data. And to my knowledge no other country than the US is pushing it to kids below 12. But I've let it go, it's no longer a thing and I was lucky enough to dodge any mandates. This thread started with me pointing out the revisionism in claiming democrats are the right people to get to the bottom of the origin. I'm not getting into the details of if/when mRNA started testing and roll-outs.
      - hotpotamus 4y ago
        https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/diseases/flu.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/diseases/flu.html I had not had occasion to look into it, but the US CDC recommends flu shots starting at 6 months. From a quick search, it looks like EU guidelines differ a bit but some do encourage that children and the elderly get it. To me it was always just one of those things responsible members of society do - pay for your car registration, go to the dentist, keep your area clean, get your shots, etc... I'm far from 100% on all that stuff, but the vaccines never struck me as being all that far out of line - maintaining my car is more expense and trouble than that at least, and I hate going to the dentist. But I fail to see how my flu vaccination needs would change if it turned out that the flu had been somehow a creation of a foreign nation. I don't know who "the right people" are to get to the bottom of the origin of Covid, but if it is Republicans, then I doubt their motives are for a blameless post-mortem style investigation that ends with a list of plausible recommendations for improvements in response to future pandemics. That skepticism was were I got started.
        worksonmine 4y ago
        Still with blaming a foreign nation. I already answered that. Look into Fauci and Daszak, gain-of-function and everything related. It's a rabbit hole I know but you have to ask the question to understand where the other side comes from. Dazsak himself even mentioned his conflicting interest when he was appointed by the WHO to investigate if his own lab was the source of the leak. And the democrats did everything they could to suppress this and calling anyone curious a conspiracy theorists. All because the bad evil Republicans made the claims first. The same conspiracies that are now pretty mainstream and many people backing down from earlier claims. Try to be less partisan and get to the bottom of the truth. My conclusions as I mentioned are sinister, and very ugly. And the entire world media dancing to the same tune just reinforces that. I don't want to believe this but it's the only explanation I see, I don't believe they're incompetent, they're evil... For many it was just the right-thing-to-do™ (how many times has that been used throughout history), but those pulling the strings are different. And they're not partisan, they play both sides.

hotpotamus 4y ago

I'm not really aware of the risk/reward levels of different vaccines for different age groups, but to imply that we used to care about what got put into vaccines but no longer do seems quite silly - the "vaccines cause autism" idea got going in the early 90's. But low as the risks of either may be, I wonder - did more children die of covid or of covid vaccination?

worksonmine 4y ago
Almost no children died of covid, a rounding error. It wasn't a problem for them and shouldn't have been made out to be. Old people died from the flu before covid but we didn't vaccinate kids to protect them back then, what changed? The problem is we really don't know what effects mRNA can have and anyone who claims they do are lying. So why was it pushed so hard?
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  I've gotten an annual flu shot since adolescence and I'd recommend that everyone of every age do so as well, mostly because of the consequences I suffered when I failed to do so. Again, I'm far from an expert, but I've been told that RNA vaccines have been studied for a couple decades now, but the recent vaccines were the first widespread use. But won't a virus deliver several orders of magnitude more RNA to you anyway? Speaking for myself, I've personally known many people including myself who have gotten a variety of vaccines with zero long term consequences, though I did have one friend who gets knocked on his ass for a day or two by them. It's those that chose to forgo the vaccine who have suffered life altering consequences as a result. I actually was talking to a friend yesterday who's thinking about applying for disability since he's tried several times to return to his job as a waiter and been too weak to do the job. Of course, new technologies will always have the risk of novel effects I suppose. Frankly if I had kids, I'd be more concerned about their constant attachment to phones/tablets and social media like Tiktok or the like. It's hard for me to tell if that's just me getting old and grumpy about technology or if these are in fact new and novel risks, but it's impossible not to notice all the children being carted around with their faces essentially attached to some screen or other.
  - worksonmine 4y ago
    Interesting, I know that some middle-aged people do get flu shots but never met one. To me it's something the elderly need. I'm raised with the notion that a little bacteria now and then is only good for me. My vaccine is the disease. But don't get me wrong, I don't blame anyone who got the shot, I'm questioning those in power who had the same data I did but still claimed it was so necessary for everyone and their mother to get vaccinated or the world would go to shit. If you looked at the numbers it was just a bad flu season. They definitely knew because I knew, from their own official data. And to my knowledge no other country than the US is pushing it to kids below 12. But I've let it go, it's no longer a thing and I was lucky enough to dodge any mandates. This thread started with me pointing out the revisionism in claiming democrats are the right people to get to the bottom of the origin. I'm not getting into the details of if/when mRNA started testing and roll-outs.
    - hotpotamus 4y ago
      https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/diseases/flu.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/diseases/flu.html I had not had occasion to look into it, but the US CDC recommends flu shots starting at 6 months. From a quick search, it looks like EU guidelines differ a bit but some do encourage that children and the elderly get it. To me it was always just one of those things responsible members of society do - pay for your car registration, go to the dentist, keep your area clean, get your shots, etc... I'm far from 100% on all that stuff, but the vaccines never struck me as being all that far out of line - maintaining my car is more expense and trouble than that at least, and I hate going to the dentist. But I fail to see how my flu vaccination needs would change if it turned out that the flu had been somehow a creation of a foreign nation. I don't know who "the right people" are to get to the bottom of the origin of Covid, but if it is Republicans, then I doubt their motives are for a blameless post-mortem style investigation that ends with a list of plausible recommendations for improvements in response to future pandemics. That skepticism was were I got started.
      - worksonmine 4y ago
        Still with blaming a foreign nation. I already answered that. Look into Fauci and Daszak, gain-of-function and everything related. It's a rabbit hole I know but you have to ask the question to understand where the other side comes from. Dazsak himself even mentioned his conflicting interest when he was appointed by the WHO to investigate if his own lab was the source of the leak. And the democrats did everything they could to suppress this and calling anyone curious a conspiracy theorists. All because the bad evil Republicans made the claims first. The same conspiracies that are now pretty mainstream and many people backing down from earlier claims. Try to be less partisan and get to the bottom of the truth. My conclusions as I mentioned are sinister, and very ugly. And the entire world media dancing to the same tune just reinforces that. I don't want to believe this but it's the only explanation I see, I don't believe they're incompetent, they're evil... For many it was just the right-thing-to-do™ (how many times has that been used throughout history), but those pulling the strings are different. And they're not partisan, they play both sides.