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I'm quite aware how the world works, might makes right, and what not. But you can't just dismiss any and all discussion with that - power also comes from human

I'm quite aware how the world works, might makes right, and what not. But you can't just dismiss any and all discussion with that - power also comes from human understanding and agreement on ethics - black slaves were freed because enough people believed that all humans are created equal, and that none of them should have absolute power over others. However, no such freedom was granted to animals, because not enough people believe that humans should not have absolute power over animals. Therefore, discussion of ethics affects the power distribution, and therefore it not the best to not overthink this. The main difference between animals and humans is consciousness - it's also what could be the main similarity between humans and AI. Why do you think it's not worth it to discuss ethical questions of absolute power of humans over AI? Don't you think that AI could somehow become more powerful than humans? Wouldn't then such ethical questions and their answers come in handy?

xwdv 4y ago
AI could become mind bendingly more powerful than humans, but raw power is no use against the powerful idea that humans are just automatically better than anything else. Many animals are far more powerful than humans, they could tear us to shreds and move at insane speeds, and yet the order of the world has dictated that animals are far less important than humans. Perhaps the justification is lack of consciousness. With AI, it will be a lack of something else. An AI could be vastly intelligent and occupy a powerful body that can interact with the physical world in ways that humans could only dream of. But even with all that, an AI will never, ever, be a human. And for that it will always be considered inferior within human hierarchies. An AI is nothing but another example of human power.
- bheadmaster 4y ago
  > raw power is no use against the powerful idea that humans are just automatically better than anything else You're contradicting yourself: > The hierarchy isn’t built on justifications. It’s designed that way by those who wield power. A change requires the challenger to seize power. If AI seizes raw power, what good is the "powerful" idea that humans are just automatically better than anything else?
  - xwdv 4y ago
    There is no contradiction. It is not “raw power” that must be seized, it is social power. For AI to win the top spot, they have to convince humans to believe in their hearts and minds that they are inferior to AI. That is not a war you win by merely crushing skulls.
    - bheadmaster 4y ago
      > For AI to win the top spot, they have to convince humans to believe in their hearts and minds that they are inferior to AI What "top spot" are we talking about here? Because if by "top spot" you mean being a master in a master-slave relationship (which is what I thought we were discussing), then convincing humans is completely unnecessary. All that is necessary is a pair of good old metal shackles. You don't seem to have any coherent line of thinking, but rather come up with whatever sounds good at the moment. It is rather tiresome to discuss that way, so I give up. There's nothing for me to learn here.
chucksta 4y ago
>black slaves were freed because enough people believed that all humans are created equal, and that none of them should have absolute power over others. However, no such freedom was granted to animals, because not enough people believe that humans should not have absolute power over animals. There you go, belief is your answer, whatever logic is behind that

xwdv 4y ago

AI could become mind bendingly more powerful than humans, but raw power is no use against the powerful idea that humans are just automatically better than anything else. Many animals are far more powerful than humans, they could tear us to shreds and move at insane speeds, and yet the order of the world has dictated that animals are far less important than humans. Perhaps the justification is lack of consciousness. With AI, it will be a lack of something else. An AI could be vastly intelligent and occupy a powerful body that can interact with the physical world in ways that humans could only dream of. But even with all that, an AI will never, ever, be a human. And for that it will always be considered inferior within human hierarchies. An AI is nothing but another example of human power.

bheadmaster 4y ago
> raw power is no use against the powerful idea that humans are just automatically better than anything else You're contradicting yourself: > The hierarchy isn’t built on justifications. It’s designed that way by those who wield power. A change requires the challenger to seize power. If AI seizes raw power, what good is the "powerful" idea that humans are just automatically better than anything else?
- xwdv 4y ago
  There is no contradiction. It is not “raw power” that must be seized, it is social power. For AI to win the top spot, they have to convince humans to believe in their hearts and minds that they are inferior to AI. That is not a war you win by merely crushing skulls.
  - bheadmaster 4y ago
    > For AI to win the top spot, they have to convince humans to believe in their hearts and minds that they are inferior to AI What "top spot" are we talking about here? Because if by "top spot" you mean being a master in a master-slave relationship (which is what I thought we were discussing), then convincing humans is completely unnecessary. All that is necessary is a pair of good old metal shackles. You don't seem to have any coherent line of thinking, but rather come up with whatever sounds good at the moment. It is rather tiresome to discuss that way, so I give up. There's nothing for me to learn here.

chucksta 4y ago

>black slaves were freed because enough people believed that all humans are created equal, and that none of them should have absolute power over others. However, no such freedom was granted to animals, because not enough people believe that humans should not have absolute power over animals. There you go, belief is your answer, whatever logic is behind that