8 ms·

> I am currently getting rid of the car and going back to ICE because my whole experience was a painful joke. Can you elaborate?

TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
Charging - Expensive and epic waste of time. Ionity leading the way with 0.79EUR/kWh and still you are there for 40 minutes and that's charger which can give me 150kW on start of charging. Slower chargers, like stupid 50kW? Yeah, 2 hours charging and they are wide and far. 20kW and weaker chargers? You are playing lottery with compatibility buddy. Yes it is there, yes it is on, but it does not like your car. What's the point of CCS when there are different incompatible software stacks in power delivery protocol? Car almost left me stranded in middle of France north of Troyes, when it lead me to charge to Freshmile, which was not compatible at all (car navigation was thinking otherwise). I needed to charge at local Citroen dealership to get 30km so I can get to Ionity in Troyes. Applications - Frustrating chapter for itself. New charger, new app to be installed, account created in etc.... And new problems to be solved, like their pay gate does not like your Visa card. Huh? Or they will happily take your money as a credit for charging and then you will figure out that your car is not compatible with the charger. Money back? F You! This could have been resolved by installing normal debit card terminals, like are in stores. Just let me use my NFC card / phone to pay what I have charged. Like on an automated gas pump or when I am buying groceries. IT COULD BE THAT SIMPLE. Driving - 2 hours going 130km/h on highway, then you need to charge for cca 1 hour. So your average traveling speed can't exceed 90km/h. That's an epic waste of time. Charging at home - I moved to another country, where I can't charge at a driveway, because now I am living in the apartment. So I am forced to charge 2km away on a 20kW charger. Completely uncomfortable. And then seeing ban on ICE cars 12 years away and there is 50% of people in EU living in apartments... yeah after my experience, I am confident that this will get postponed.
- clouddrover 4y ago
  > when it lead me to charge to Freshmile Try A Better Routeplanner and configure it to plan routes which prioritize your preferred charging providers: https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ You'll probably have an easier time of it with ABRP.
  - genocidicbunny 4y ago
    Not the parent you're replying to, but this comment is very indicative of the problem being addressed. With an ICE car, or even a hybrid, this is just not a consideration. I don't need to plan my route around fuel stops unless I'm going somewhere well away from 'civilization'. The issues described are not insolvable, but dismissing that they aren't currently solved is a little bit like sticking your head in the sand. Suggesting a better route planner just seems a little naive in that context.
    - clouddrover 4y ago
      What a bizarre thing to say. EV charging infrastructure is still being built out. It's still the case that there aren't EV chargers absolutely everywhere. Until there are many more EV chargers in more locations such that you don't have to think about it, you use a route planner to easily find the charger locations that exist now.
      - genocidicbunny 4y ago
        I retort that I find it bizarre that you somehow think that for most people, offering them a solution that strictly requires more effort on their part is preferable. > Until there are many more EV chargers in more locations such that you don't have to think about it, you use a route planner to easily find the charger locations that exist now. Or I use an ICE car and not have to deal with this, like at all.
        lmm 4y ago
        > offering them a solution that strictly requires more effort on their part is preferable The whole point of suggesting a route planner is to reduce the effort on their part. Any change of vehicle is a tradeoff - maybe it's faster but has worse fuel economy. Maybe it's got more passenger space but the navigation is worse. Ways to mitigate the downsides are a good thing. > Or I use an ICE car and not have to deal with this, like at all. Sure, but there are significant downsides to ICE. The tradeoffs may be worth it or they may not. Would you call it naive to talk about e.g. catalytic converters on ICEs to reduce their emissions (which then end up getting stolen - whereas I can use an electric car and not have to deal with that, like at all)
- Vvector 4y ago
  If you don't charge at home at least 90% of the time, the EV loses most of the benefits. This will slowly change as more EVs are sold and the charging infrastructure improves.
  - nixass 4y ago
    > This will slowly change as more EVs are sold and the charging infrastructure improves. Yeah.. no. Especially not in old big towns around Europe where hundreds of thousands (even millions) of people live without underground garage and there's literally no place to install street side chargers on every corner.
    - mschuster91 4y ago
      I'm living in the center of Munich, and they've built out a lot of curb-side chargers over the last years here. My personal hope is that advances in technology and grid upgrades will eventually lead to every single lamp post being a charge socket - a lot of the cars here belong to residents and stay parked for days, so they can get away with 3.6 kW charging just fine. In the end, however, the solution likely will be a massive expansion of public transport, to a point where almost no one but people with disabilities and tradespeople will have their own cars.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - Tade0 4y ago
        I don't think that last thing will ever happen. Even in Denmark, where cycling culture predates the car and there used to be (or is - I'm not up to date), among other disincentives, a hefty 180% registration tax people still drive. All in all it's a useful tool if used in moderation.
    - matthewdgreen 4y ago
      How will we ever deliver 240VAC electricity to locations that are directly adjacent to urban city streets. Seems like an intractable problem. /s
- Yaggo 4y ago
  I think your experience reflects more your choise of car than EVs as technology. I have been driving Tesla happily for 3.5 years. I regularly make long distance trips to remote areas of Finland. No problems whatsoever. I pay 25 snt/kWh for on-the-road charging with Elli membership, about 12 snt at home.
  - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
    The moment when you will get off the supercharger network with your tesla you are in the same crap as the rest of the BEV owners. >on-the-road charging with Elli membership Why should I buy some stupid membership so I can pay monthly fee + charging fee? I am not buying memberships for taking gas either.
    - neon_electro 4y ago
      Net cost of energy, and a quick payback on your monthly fee based on the savings vs. not paying the monthly fee. It's math.
    - clouddrover 4y ago
      > The moment when you will get off the supercharger network with your tesla There are 21 Tesla charging sites in Finland and 14 of them are now open to all EVs. So you could be making use of two thirds of Tesla's Finnish charging sites with your Skoda Enyaq right now.
      - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
        Lol on 14 open superchargers. Tried Tesla app. It told me to insert VIN of my car, to tell me that this is not Tesla VIN. Well no shit Sherlock. So even if I would like to charge (and pay) on superchargers, I can't.
        clouddrover 4y ago
        Everyone else is managing to. Maybe you should try again. It just seems like a lot of your problems are self-inflicted. You could be doing things easier.

TheLoafOfBread 4y ago

Charging - Expensive and epic waste of time. Ionity leading the way with 0.79EUR/kWh and still you are there for 40 minutes and that's charger which can give me 150kW on start of charging. Slower chargers, like stupid 50kW? Yeah, 2 hours charging and they are wide and far. 20kW and weaker chargers? You are playing lottery with compatibility buddy. Yes it is there, yes it is on, but it does not like your car. What's the point of CCS when there are different incompatible software stacks in power delivery protocol? Car almost left me stranded in middle of France north of Troyes, when it lead me to charge to Freshmile, which was not compatible at all (car navigation was thinking otherwise). I needed to charge at local Citroen dealership to get 30km so I can get to Ionity in Troyes. Applications - Frustrating chapter for itself. New charger, new app to be installed, account created in etc.... And new problems to be solved, like their pay gate does not like your Visa card. Huh? Or they will happily take your money as a credit for charging and then you will figure out that your car is not compatible with the charger. Money back? F You! This could have been resolved by installing normal debit card terminals, like are in stores. Just let me use my NFC card / phone to pay what I have charged. Like on an automated gas pump or when I am buying groceries. IT COULD BE THAT SIMPLE. Driving - 2 hours going 130km/h on highway, then you need to charge for cca 1 hour. So your average traveling speed can't exceed 90km/h. That's an epic waste of time. Charging at home - I moved to another country, where I can't charge at a driveway, because now I am living in the apartment. So I am forced to charge 2km away on a 20kW charger. Completely uncomfortable. And then seeing ban on ICE cars 12 years away and there is 50% of people in EU living in apartments... yeah after my experience, I am confident that this will get postponed.

clouddrover 4y ago
> when it lead me to charge to Freshmile Try A Better Routeplanner and configure it to plan routes which prioritize your preferred charging providers: https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ You'll probably have an easier time of it with ABRP.
- genocidicbunny 4y ago
  Not the parent you're replying to, but this comment is very indicative of the problem being addressed. With an ICE car, or even a hybrid, this is just not a consideration. I don't need to plan my route around fuel stops unless I'm going somewhere well away from 'civilization'. The issues described are not insolvable, but dismissing that they aren't currently solved is a little bit like sticking your head in the sand. Suggesting a better route planner just seems a little naive in that context.
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    What a bizarre thing to say. EV charging infrastructure is still being built out. It's still the case that there aren't EV chargers absolutely everywhere. Until there are many more EV chargers in more locations such that you don't have to think about it, you use a route planner to easily find the charger locations that exist now.
    - genocidicbunny 4y ago
      I retort that I find it bizarre that you somehow think that for most people, offering them a solution that strictly requires more effort on their part is preferable. > Until there are many more EV chargers in more locations such that you don't have to think about it, you use a route planner to easily find the charger locations that exist now. Or I use an ICE car and not have to deal with this, like at all.
      - lmm 4y ago
        > offering them a solution that strictly requires more effort on their part is preferable The whole point of suggesting a route planner is to reduce the effort on their part. Any change of vehicle is a tradeoff - maybe it's faster but has worse fuel economy. Maybe it's got more passenger space but the navigation is worse. Ways to mitigate the downsides are a good thing. > Or I use an ICE car and not have to deal with this, like at all. Sure, but there are significant downsides to ICE. The tradeoffs may be worth it or they may not. Would you call it naive to talk about e.g. catalytic converters on ICEs to reduce their emissions (which then end up getting stolen - whereas I can use an electric car and not have to deal with that, like at all)
Vvector 4y ago
If you don't charge at home at least 90% of the time, the EV loses most of the benefits. This will slowly change as more EVs are sold and the charging infrastructure improves.
- nixass 4y ago
  > This will slowly change as more EVs are sold and the charging infrastructure improves. Yeah.. no. Especially not in old big towns around Europe where hundreds of thousands (even millions) of people live without underground garage and there's literally no place to install street side chargers on every corner.
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    I'm living in the center of Munich, and they've built out a lot of curb-side chargers over the last years here. My personal hope is that advances in technology and grid upgrades will eventually lead to every single lamp post being a charge socket - a lot of the cars here belong to residents and stay parked for days, so they can get away with 3.6 kW charging just fine. In the end, however, the solution likely will be a massive expansion of public transport, to a point where almost no one but people with disabilities and tradespeople will have their own cars.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - Tade0 4y ago
      I don't think that last thing will ever happen. Even in Denmark, where cycling culture predates the car and there used to be (or is - I'm not up to date), among other disincentives, a hefty 180% registration tax people still drive. All in all it's a useful tool if used in moderation.
  - matthewdgreen 4y ago
    How will we ever deliver 240VAC electricity to locations that are directly adjacent to urban city streets. Seems like an intractable problem. /s
Yaggo 4y ago
I think your experience reflects more your choise of car than EVs as technology. I have been driving Tesla happily for 3.5 years. I regularly make long distance trips to remote areas of Finland. No problems whatsoever. I pay 25 snt/kWh for on-the-road charging with Elli membership, about 12 snt at home.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  The moment when you will get off the supercharger network with your tesla you are in the same crap as the rest of the BEV owners. >on-the-road charging with Elli membership Why should I buy some stupid membership so I can pay monthly fee + charging fee? I am not buying memberships for taking gas either.
  - neon_electro 4y ago
    Net cost of energy, and a quick payback on your monthly fee based on the savings vs. not paying the monthly fee. It's math.
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    > The moment when you will get off the supercharger network with your tesla There are 21 Tesla charging sites in Finland and 14 of them are now open to all EVs. So you could be making use of two thirds of Tesla's Finnish charging sites with your Skoda Enyaq right now.
    - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
      Lol on 14 open superchargers. Tried Tesla app. It told me to insert VIN of my car, to tell me that this is not Tesla VIN. Well no shit Sherlock. So even if I would like to charge (and pay) on superchargers, I can't.
      - clouddrover 4y ago
        Everyone else is managing to. Maybe you should try again. It just seems like a lot of your problems are self-inflicted. You could be doing things easier.