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As an owner of BEV (Skoda Enyaq) I agree with this sentiment. My experience is that BEVs are expensive to purchase and expensive to use. This is a niche car for

As an owner of BEV (Skoda Enyaq) I agree with this sentiment. My experience is that BEVs are expensive to purchase and expensive to use. This is a niche car for rich people, not Toyota Prius for common folk. I am currently getting rid of the car and going back to ICE because my whole experience was a painful joke. Toyota is getting ridiculed today, but they will be last one who will be laughing, when prices for BEV and for batteries are currently going up [0] [0] https://about.bnef.com/blog/increase-in-battery-prices-could-affect-ev-progress/ https://about.bnef.com/blog/increase-in-battery-prices-could...

sokoloff 4y ago
I've had a Nissan LEAF for 8.5 years. It was more expensive to buy than the alternative I was considering (a used ICE), but wasn't that much more expensive than a comparable new car (ignoring incentives, which made the LEAF cheaper). Plenty of people were spending ~$30K on new 4-door sedans in 2014. The running costs have been noticeably lower, driven by lower (almost non-existent) maintenance costs. I'm about to buy two tires for it, but other than that, my #1 maintenance expense has been wiper blades and #2 expense washer fluid.
- abakker 4y ago
  AND!!! compared to a similar sized car with an anemic little 4 cylinder, the leaf is much better to drive, IMO. (I have a 2020 model). Its not a mercedes, but the torque off the line is so much better.
- oblio 4y ago
  My guess is that this is highly dependent on where you live, incentives/subsidies, local infrastructure, electricity cost. Based on the car presented by OP, Skoda Enyaq, I'm guessing they're in Europe where electricity is expensive. If the charging infrastructure isn't there, both at home/work and fast chargers, BEVs most likely suck.
  - RodGodKiller 4y ago
    Gasoline and Diesel is also very pricey. If you charge at home, electric cars are a (small) fraction of the price to ‘fill up’, even in Europe; if not, likely not worth it.
chinathrow 4y ago
> I am currently getting rid of the car and going back to ICE because my whole experience was a painful joke. Can you elaborate?
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  Charging - Expensive and epic waste of time. Ionity leading the way with 0.79EUR/kWh and still you are there for 40 minutes and that's charger which can give me 150kW on start of charging. Slower chargers, like stupid 50kW? Yeah, 2 hours charging and they are wide and far. 20kW and weaker chargers? You are playing lottery with compatibility buddy. Yes it is there, yes it is on, but it does not like your car. What's the point of CCS when there are different incompatible software stacks in power delivery protocol? Car almost left me stranded in middle of France north of Troyes, when it lead me to charge to Freshmile, which was not compatible at all (car navigation was thinking otherwise). I needed to charge at local Citroen dealership to get 30km so I can get to Ionity in Troyes. Applications - Frustrating chapter for itself. New charger, new app to be installed, account created in etc.... And new problems to be solved, like their pay gate does not like your Visa card. Huh? Or they will happily take your money as a credit for charging and then you will figure out that your car is not compatible with the charger. Money back? F You! This could have been resolved by installing normal debit card terminals, like are in stores. Just let me use my NFC card / phone to pay what I have charged. Like on an automated gas pump or when I am buying groceries. IT COULD BE THAT SIMPLE. Driving - 2 hours going 130km/h on highway, then you need to charge for cca 1 hour. So your average traveling speed can't exceed 90km/h. That's an epic waste of time. Charging at home - I moved to another country, where I can't charge at a driveway, because now I am living in the apartment. So I am forced to charge 2km away on a 20kW charger. Completely uncomfortable. And then seeing ban on ICE cars 12 years away and there is 50% of people in EU living in apartments... yeah after my experience, I am confident that this will get postponed.
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    > when it lead me to charge to Freshmile Try A Better Routeplanner and configure it to plan routes which prioritize your preferred charging providers: https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ You'll probably have an easier time of it with ABRP.
tpm 4y ago
However the whole EU market can't return to ICEs because of fleet emission limits, which are now 95g CO2/km and from 2025 will be 15% lower, with other changes too. So my guess is, people who can afford it (including charging infra) will have EVs which will get better and more expensive and the rest will not buy new cars. Maybe the market will shift to smaller forms of mobility, we'll see.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  The EU also, just within the last few days, banned new combustion vehicle sales starting 2035. Burn the ships, there will be no going back.
  - radiator 4y ago
    The EU had also banned and stopped operating coal generators, but now they are back in operation.
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      https://www.iea.org/news/defying-expectations-co2-emissions-from-global-fossil-fuel-combustion-are-set-to-grow-in-2022-by-only-a-fraction-of-last-year-s-big-increase https://www.iea.org/news/defying-expectations-co2-emissions-... > The European Union’s CO2 emissions are on course to decline this year despite an increase in coal emissions. The rise in European coal use is expected to be temporary, with a strong pipeline of new renewable projects forecast to add around 50 gigawatts of capacity in 2023. These additions would generate more electricity than the expected increase in coal-fired power generation in the EU in 2022. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/dec/22/eus-emissions-continue-to-fall-despite-return-to-coal https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/dec/22/eus-emis... > EU’s emissions continue to fall despite return to coal My note: those coal plants are only increasing emissions a few percentage points temporarily. Trajectory deviation is ever so sleight.
    - fragmede 4y ago
      There seems to be some sort of exceptional geopolitical event involving Russia and Ukraine. You may have heard of it. It's affecting the global energy market.

sokoloff 4y ago

I've had a Nissan LEAF for 8.5 years. It was more expensive to buy than the alternative I was considering (a used ICE), but wasn't that much more expensive than a comparable new car (ignoring incentives, which made the LEAF cheaper). Plenty of people were spending ~$30K on new 4-door sedans in 2014. The running costs have been noticeably lower, driven by lower (almost non-existent) maintenance costs. I'm about to buy two tires for it, but other than that, my #1 maintenance expense has been wiper blades and #2 expense washer fluid.

abakker 4y ago
AND!!! compared to a similar sized car with an anemic little 4 cylinder, the leaf is much better to drive, IMO. (I have a 2020 model). Its not a mercedes, but the torque off the line is so much better.
oblio 4y ago
My guess is that this is highly dependent on where you live, incentives/subsidies, local infrastructure, electricity cost. Based on the car presented by OP, Skoda Enyaq, I'm guessing they're in Europe where electricity is expensive. If the charging infrastructure isn't there, both at home/work and fast chargers, BEVs most likely suck.
- RodGodKiller 4y ago
  Gasoline and Diesel is also very pricey. If you charge at home, electric cars are a (small) fraction of the price to ‘fill up’, even in Europe; if not, likely not worth it.

chinathrow 4y ago

> I am currently getting rid of the car and going back to ICE because my whole experience was a painful joke. Can you elaborate?

TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
Charging - Expensive and epic waste of time. Ionity leading the way with 0.79EUR/kWh and still you are there for 40 minutes and that's charger which can give me 150kW on start of charging. Slower chargers, like stupid 50kW? Yeah, 2 hours charging and they are wide and far. 20kW and weaker chargers? You are playing lottery with compatibility buddy. Yes it is there, yes it is on, but it does not like your car. What's the point of CCS when there are different incompatible software stacks in power delivery protocol? Car almost left me stranded in middle of France north of Troyes, when it lead me to charge to Freshmile, which was not compatible at all (car navigation was thinking otherwise). I needed to charge at local Citroen dealership to get 30km so I can get to Ionity in Troyes. Applications - Frustrating chapter for itself. New charger, new app to be installed, account created in etc.... And new problems to be solved, like their pay gate does not like your Visa card. Huh? Or they will happily take your money as a credit for charging and then you will figure out that your car is not compatible with the charger. Money back? F You! This could have been resolved by installing normal debit card terminals, like are in stores. Just let me use my NFC card / phone to pay what I have charged. Like on an automated gas pump or when I am buying groceries. IT COULD BE THAT SIMPLE. Driving - 2 hours going 130km/h on highway, then you need to charge for cca 1 hour. So your average traveling speed can't exceed 90km/h. That's an epic waste of time. Charging at home - I moved to another country, where I can't charge at a driveway, because now I am living in the apartment. So I am forced to charge 2km away on a 20kW charger. Completely uncomfortable. And then seeing ban on ICE cars 12 years away and there is 50% of people in EU living in apartments... yeah after my experience, I am confident that this will get postponed.
- clouddrover 4y ago
  > when it lead me to charge to Freshmile Try A Better Routeplanner and configure it to plan routes which prioritize your preferred charging providers: https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ You'll probably have an easier time of it with ABRP.

tpm 4y ago

However the whole EU market can't return to ICEs because of fleet emission limits, which are now 95g CO2/km and from 2025 will be 15% lower, with other changes too. So my guess is, people who can afford it (including charging infra) will have EVs which will get better and more expensive and the rest will not buy new cars. Maybe the market will shift to smaller forms of mobility, we'll see.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
The EU also, just within the last few days, banned new combustion vehicle sales starting 2035. Burn the ships, there will be no going back.
- radiator 4y ago
  The EU had also banned and stopped operating coal generators, but now they are back in operation.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    https://www.iea.org/news/defying-expectations-co2-emissions-from-global-fossil-fuel-combustion-are-set-to-grow-in-2022-by-only-a-fraction-of-last-year-s-big-increase https://www.iea.org/news/defying-expectations-co2-emissions-... > The European Union’s CO2 emissions are on course to decline this year despite an increase in coal emissions. The rise in European coal use is expected to be temporary, with a strong pipeline of new renewable projects forecast to add around 50 gigawatts of capacity in 2023. These additions would generate more electricity than the expected increase in coal-fired power generation in the EU in 2022. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/dec/22/eus-emissions-continue-to-fall-despite-return-to-coal https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/dec/22/eus-emis... > EU’s emissions continue to fall despite return to coal My note: those coal plants are only increasing emissions a few percentage points temporarily. Trajectory deviation is ever so sleight.
  - fragmede 4y ago
    There seems to be some sort of exceptional geopolitical event involving Russia and Ukraine. You may have heard of it. It's affecting the global energy market.