6 ms·

How are the interpersonal relationships like being stuck with others for months

pavlov 4y ago
Apparently not great if you're a woman: https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/02/as-antarctic-fieldwork-ends-a-sexual-harassment-reckoning-looms/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/02/as-antarctic-fieldwo...
- 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
  Jesus christ. "In one online survey published in PLOS ONE and covered by Science in 2014, 71% of 512 female respondents reported being sexually harassed during fieldwork; 84% of them were trainees." "In the NSF report, one interviewee said she’d been told on her first day at McMurdo to stay clear of a certain building unless she “wanted to be raped.” Another woman said she felt like she was seen as “prey” no matter where she was physically on the base." "Another was so "freaked out" by the pervasive sexual harassment that she began carrying around a hammer." "Another survivor of sexual harassment said she didn't report the incident for fear her employer would fire her; when she could no longer cope, she quit." This fucking David Marchant guy was a fucking terror. Holy shit. (https://www.science.org/content/article/disturbing-allegations-sexual-harassment-antarctica-leveled-noted-scientist https://www.science.org/content/article/disturbing-allegatio...) "Boston University suspended prominent Antarctic geologist David Marchant with pay. Multiple women had come forward with allegations of sexual harassment against him" "The first complainant, Jane Willenbring, now an associate professor at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography, part of the University of California, San Diego, alleges that Marchant repeatedly shoved her down a steep slope, pelted her with rocks while she was urinating in the field, called her a "slut" and a "whore," and urged her to have sex with his brother, who was also on the trip." "According to Willenbring, Marchant told her repeatedly that his brother had a "porn-sized" penis, and said she should have sex with him and feel lucky for the opportunity." "One week, Willenbring alleges, David Marchant "decided that he would throw rocks at me every time I urinated in the field." She cut her water consumption so she could last the 12-hour days far from camp without urinating, then drank liters at night. She says she developed a urinary tract infection and urinary incontinence, which has since recurred. When blood appeared in her urine, she alleges, Marchant prohibited her from going back to McMurdo for treatment." "The second complainant, Deborah Doe (a pseudonym), who was in Antarctica for two austral summers during this era, reports that Marchant called her a "c--t" and a "bitch" repeatedly. She alleges that he promised to block her access to research funding should she earn a Ph.D. She abandoned her career dreams and left academe." "A third woman, Hillary Tulley, a Skokie, Illinois, high school teacher, describes her experience in a supporting letter filed with BU investigators. "His taunts, degrading comments about my body, brain, and general inadequacies never ended," she writes. She claims Marchant tried to exhaust her into leaving Antarctica. "Every day was terrifying," she says in an interview with Science."
  - seanw444 4y ago
    How do you become that evil?
    - vkou 4y ago
      Be surrounded by enablers who look the other way. Power + no responsibility = excellent environment for sociopaths.
  - gammarator 4y ago
    The documentary "Picture a Scientist" https://www.pictureascientist.com/ https://www.pictureascientist.com/ describes some of this--it's gutting to watch.
- lordswork 4y ago
  From the 274 page NSF report on sexual harassment/assault in the Antarctic[1]: >“a very young woman, [who] had never been on the ice before. Somehow, she slipped away from us and went out to the bar . . . and I was like ‘Oh my god, did we forget to tell her she was prey?’” One survey respondent wrote, “I was told [of] certain guys, by name, to stay clear of and there were several guys who harassed me. Hell, my very first day at McMurdo I was told to stay clear of Building [X] unless I wanted to be raped.” Wow, I had no idea it was this bad. Being stationed at one of these sites is a life-long dream come true for many of these scientists. It must be terrible for the women who learn of this situation when they get out there. [1] https://www.nsf.gov/geo/opp/documents/USAP%20SAHPR%20Report.pdf https://www.nsf.gov/geo/opp/documents/USAP%20SAHPR%20Report....
  - wkat4242 4y ago
    Maybe a bit of a leap for an American mindset but perhaps bringing some professionals into this might help the overall atmosphere a lot. Not just between the men and women. Normal work relations would also benefit from not having pent-up desires. I'm from Holland and we have a lot less taboos on this stuff. But it's kinda weird to me to expect people to forgo a basic human need like sexuality. And celibacy often leads to terrible things like abuse in the church. Their other needs like food, healthcare and heating are met, really it should be possible to talk about this one. If they'd send a massage therapist or a psychologist it would raise no eyebrows. Is this really that different?
- Neil44 4y ago
  That's a shame. It sounds like a workplace from the 70's, or worse.
- goldenchrome 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - pavlov 4y ago
    > "The animal within each of us comes out in Antarctica more than anywhere else. This is of course part of what makes living there so exciting on an elemental level." It's supposed to be a science station, not some kind of wild survival game. I don't think any of the women scientists signed up for "excitement on an elemental level."
    - goldenchrome 4y ago
      That’s a fine goal but it doesn’t take away from the fact that Antarctica is a hostile environment which makes it hard to establish civilization. I’m describing reality, not my own personal wishes.
      - clarkema 4y ago
        We don't "establish" civilization. We take it with us.
        goldenchrome 4y ago
        The soldiers who go abroad and commit murder and rape are also taking their civilization with them. Civilization is vital for our species’ continued success but it requires specific conditions to maintain. Each of us is capable of atrocious things.
  - clarkema 4y ago
    We enforce rules in our society because they make that society better. Basic shared rules of behaviour are a precondition for social cohesion and prosperity, _not_ a luxury that we can only afford when everything else has been taken care of. This goes 10x in small groups in rigorous environments. I wouldn't call resources in the Antarctic winter "incredibly scarce"; expeditions have been wintering South for decades now. We know what's required, and it's available, in quantity, with backups. It's true that people are trapped together for months at a time; we also rely on each other for survival. Under such circumstances, it's entirely backwards to claim "local society can't afford to have such strict standards." Just the opposite; strict standards of social behaviour are _required_ for the group cohesion and trust that's necessary for collaboration and survival. A candidate who demonstrated this attitude would never get through BAS' hiring process. If, by some mischance, they did manage to make it South, they certainly wouldn't be overwintering. Source: Wintered in Antarctica. Did not regress to the state of a caveman clad in penguin skins, nor did I become "prone to sexually harassing women."

Apparently not great if you're a woman: https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/02/as-antarctic-fieldwork-ends-a-sexual-harassment-reckoning-looms/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/02/as-antarctic-fieldwo...

0xbadcafebee 4y ago
Jesus christ. "In one online survey published in PLOS ONE and covered by Science in 2014, 71% of 512 female respondents reported being sexually harassed during fieldwork; 84% of them were trainees." "In the NSF report, one interviewee said she’d been told on her first day at McMurdo to stay clear of a certain building unless she “wanted to be raped.” Another woman said she felt like she was seen as “prey” no matter where she was physically on the base." "Another was so "freaked out" by the pervasive sexual harassment that she began carrying around a hammer." "Another survivor of sexual harassment said she didn't report the incident for fear her employer would fire her; when she could no longer cope, she quit." This fucking David Marchant guy was a fucking terror. Holy shit. (https://www.science.org/content/article/disturbing-allegations-sexual-harassment-antarctica-leveled-noted-scientist https://www.science.org/content/article/disturbing-allegatio...) "Boston University suspended prominent Antarctic geologist David Marchant with pay. Multiple women had come forward with allegations of sexual harassment against him" "The first complainant, Jane Willenbring, now an associate professor at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography, part of the University of California, San Diego, alleges that Marchant repeatedly shoved her down a steep slope, pelted her with rocks while she was urinating in the field, called her a "slut" and a "whore," and urged her to have sex with his brother, who was also on the trip." "According to Willenbring, Marchant told her repeatedly that his brother had a "porn-sized" penis, and said she should have sex with him and feel lucky for the opportunity." "One week, Willenbring alleges, David Marchant "decided that he would throw rocks at me every time I urinated in the field." She cut her water consumption so she could last the 12-hour days far from camp without urinating, then drank liters at night. She says she developed a urinary tract infection and urinary incontinence, which has since recurred. When blood appeared in her urine, she alleges, Marchant prohibited her from going back to McMurdo for treatment." "The second complainant, Deborah Doe (a pseudonym), who was in Antarctica for two austral summers during this era, reports that Marchant called her a "c--t" and a "bitch" repeatedly. She alleges that he promised to block her access to research funding should she earn a Ph.D. She abandoned her career dreams and left academe." "A third woman, Hillary Tulley, a Skokie, Illinois, high school teacher, describes her experience in a supporting letter filed with BU investigators. "His taunts, degrading comments about my body, brain, and general inadequacies never ended," she writes. She claims Marchant tried to exhaust her into leaving Antarctica. "Every day was terrifying," she says in an interview with Science."
- seanw444 4y ago
  How do you become that evil?
  - vkou 4y ago
    Be surrounded by enablers who look the other way. Power + no responsibility = excellent environment for sociopaths.
- gammarator 4y ago
  The documentary "Picture a Scientist" https://www.pictureascientist.com/ https://www.pictureascientist.com/ describes some of this--it's gutting to watch.
lordswork 4y ago
From the 274 page NSF report on sexual harassment/assault in the Antarctic[1]: >“a very young woman, [who] had never been on the ice before. Somehow, she slipped away from us and went out to the bar . . . and I was like ‘Oh my god, did we forget to tell her she was prey?’” One survey respondent wrote, “I was told [of] certain guys, by name, to stay clear of and there were several guys who harassed me. Hell, my very first day at McMurdo I was told to stay clear of Building [X] unless I wanted to be raped.” Wow, I had no idea it was this bad. Being stationed at one of these sites is a life-long dream come true for many of these scientists. It must be terrible for the women who learn of this situation when they get out there. [1] https://www.nsf.gov/geo/opp/documents/USAP%20SAHPR%20Report.pdf https://www.nsf.gov/geo/opp/documents/USAP%20SAHPR%20Report....
- wkat4242 4y ago
  Maybe a bit of a leap for an American mindset but perhaps bringing some professionals into this might help the overall atmosphere a lot. Not just between the men and women. Normal work relations would also benefit from not having pent-up desires. I'm from Holland and we have a lot less taboos on this stuff. But it's kinda weird to me to expect people to forgo a basic human need like sexuality. And celibacy often leads to terrible things like abuse in the church. Their other needs like food, healthcare and heating are met, really it should be possible to talk about this one. If they'd send a massage therapist or a psychologist it would raise no eyebrows. Is this really that different?
Neil44 4y ago
That's a shame. It sounds like a workplace from the 70's, or worse.
goldenchrome 4y ago
[flagged]
- pavlov 4y ago
  > "The animal within each of us comes out in Antarctica more than anywhere else. This is of course part of what makes living there so exciting on an elemental level." It's supposed to be a science station, not some kind of wild survival game. I don't think any of the women scientists signed up for "excitement on an elemental level."
  - goldenchrome 4y ago
    That’s a fine goal but it doesn’t take away from the fact that Antarctica is a hostile environment which makes it hard to establish civilization. I’m describing reality, not my own personal wishes.
    - clarkema 4y ago
      We don't "establish" civilization. We take it with us.
      - goldenchrome 4y ago
        The soldiers who go abroad and commit murder and rape are also taking their civilization with them. Civilization is vital for our species’ continued success but it requires specific conditions to maintain. Each of us is capable of atrocious things.
- clarkema 4y ago
  We enforce rules in our society because they make that society better. Basic shared rules of behaviour are a precondition for social cohesion and prosperity, _not_ a luxury that we can only afford when everything else has been taken care of. This goes 10x in small groups in rigorous environments. I wouldn't call resources in the Antarctic winter "incredibly scarce"; expeditions have been wintering South for decades now. We know what's required, and it's available, in quantity, with backups. It's true that people are trapped together for months at a time; we also rely on each other for survival. Under such circumstances, it's entirely backwards to claim "local society can't afford to have such strict standards." Just the opposite; strict standards of social behaviour are _required_ for the group cohesion and trust that's necessary for collaboration and survival. A candidate who demonstrated this attitude would never get through BAS' hiring process. If, by some mischance, they did manage to make it South, they certainly wouldn't be overwintering. Source: Wintered in Antarctica. Did not regress to the state of a caveman clad in penguin skins, nor did I become "prone to sexually harassing women."