4 ms·

> Out of interest, how much of that is caused by the law degree being (as far as I understand it) a postgraduate degree in the US? At face value, the sticker p

> Out of interest, how much of that is caused by the law degree being (as far as I understand it) a postgraduate degree in the US? At face value, the sticker price of grad school will always be more expensive, however, UF[1], UNC Chapel Hill[2], UT Austin[3], etc. are just a few reputable public universities with relatively affordable law programs, in particular, for in-state residents with enough grit to skip on-campus housing. > Here in the UK you can just go straight to law school if you want without a first degree. Hasn't been a thing in the US for decades[4]. [1] https://www.law.ufl.edu/admissions/costs-and-financial-aid https://www.law.ufl.edu/admissions/costs-and-financial-aid [2] https://law.unc.edu/admissions/financing-your-legal-education/tuition-and-fees/ https://law.unc.edu/admissions/financing-your-legal-educatio... [3] https://law.utexas.edu/admissions/tuition-fees-and-expenses/ https://law.utexas.edu/admissions/tuition-fees-and-expenses/ [4] https://asklib.law.harvard.edu/faq/115308 https://asklib.law.harvard.edu/faq/115308

arethuza 4y ago
"Hasn't been a thing in the US for decades" Why? Just seems like a barrier to entry to me for no good reason?
- barry-cotter 4y ago
  The higher the monetary barrier to entry to a profession the greater the rents that accrue to those who can afford to get in. Requiring seven years of college means that very few people who were not born to the bourgeoisie or higher can join, which makes the profession more pleasant for lawyers, who have always been bourgeois. Making a first undergraduate degree mandatory means your colleagues will be more well rounded, interesting people, which makes the profession more pleasant for lawyers. Seeing a trend here?
  - ghaff 4y ago
    As it is, there isn't much of a general barrier to getting a law degree/any law degree to the point where the typical lawyer isn't really making a lot of money. The big bucks are going to white shoe law firms in big cities to lawyers who went to top schools (including Harvard) and landed federal court clerkships. While there are respectable salaries among the others, there are also a lot of lawyers doing real estate law in shopping malls that are just getting by.
    - hnfong 4y ago
      Apparently (or so I read) there is an over-supply of law school graduates in the US despite the gatekeeping requirements. The only alternative is to raise the difficulty of the bar exam but that might make it difficult for shopping malls to find affordable lawyers...
      - ghaff 4y ago
        A lot of lawyers would probably argue that the bar already doesn't have a whole lot to do with practicing law. What I see among friends with liberal arts degrees from Ivies and adjacent is that, while a few were probably already destined to be lawyers like three previous generations of their family, for most it's something they sort of fell into because they graduated with a classics major and now what? Many never even ended up practicing law--at least not for long.
- metaphor 4y ago
  > Why? Just seems like a barrier to entry to me for no good reason? The ABA considered the appropriateness in 1964 without a dissenting vote and raised the standard in 1965[1]: WHEREAS, There is a lack of uniformity among the law schools approved by The American Bar Association as to the name of the first degree in law awarded to successful applicants; and WHEREAS, Confusion has arisen in the minds of the public as to the dif- ference, if any, between the Bachelor of Laws (LL.B.) degree and the Juris Doctor (J.D.) degree; and WHEREAS, Both of these degrees normally signify a first professional de- gree in law; and WHEREAS, Graduation from an approved law school requires the successful completion of a course of study substantially above and beyond that re- quired for the bachelor's degree in the Arts or Sciences: and WHEREAS, The course of study in an approved law school is comparable to or more demanding than other professional courses of study in which the professional doctor's degree is awarded; and WHEREAS, It is deemed to be in the best interest of the public and of the legal profession that this confusion in terminology be eliminated and that the high standards of professional training and the competency of graduates of approved law schools be recognized by a uniform practice with respect to the title of the first degree in law. NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED THAT: The Section of Legal Edu- cation and Admissions to the Bar of The American Bar Association recom- mends for all approved law schools favorable consideration of the con- ferring of the degree of Juris Doctor (J.D.) by such schools on those students who successfully complete the program leading to the first professional de- gree in law. [1] https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publications/misc/legal_education/Standards/standardsarchive/1965_review.pdf https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publications/mis...

arethuza 4y ago

"Hasn't been a thing in the US for decades" Why? Just seems like a barrier to entry to me for no good reason?

barry-cotter 4y ago
The higher the monetary barrier to entry to a profession the greater the rents that accrue to those who can afford to get in. Requiring seven years of college means that very few people who were not born to the bourgeoisie or higher can join, which makes the profession more pleasant for lawyers, who have always been bourgeois. Making a first undergraduate degree mandatory means your colleagues will be more well rounded, interesting people, which makes the profession more pleasant for lawyers. Seeing a trend here?
- ghaff 4y ago
  As it is, there isn't much of a general barrier to getting a law degree/any law degree to the point where the typical lawyer isn't really making a lot of money. The big bucks are going to white shoe law firms in big cities to lawyers who went to top schools (including Harvard) and landed federal court clerkships. While there are respectable salaries among the others, there are also a lot of lawyers doing real estate law in shopping malls that are just getting by.
  - hnfong 4y ago
    Apparently (or so I read) there is an over-supply of law school graduates in the US despite the gatekeeping requirements. The only alternative is to raise the difficulty of the bar exam but that might make it difficult for shopping malls to find affordable lawyers...
    - ghaff 4y ago
      A lot of lawyers would probably argue that the bar already doesn't have a whole lot to do with practicing law. What I see among friends with liberal arts degrees from Ivies and adjacent is that, while a few were probably already destined to be lawyers like three previous generations of their family, for most it's something they sort of fell into because they graduated with a classics major and now what? Many never even ended up practicing law--at least not for long.
metaphor 4y ago
> Why? Just seems like a barrier to entry to me for no good reason? The ABA considered the appropriateness in 1964 without a dissenting vote and raised the standard in 1965[1]: WHEREAS, There is a lack of uniformity among the law schools approved by The American Bar Association as to the name of the first degree in law awarded to successful applicants; and WHEREAS, Confusion has arisen in the minds of the public as to the dif- ference, if any, between the Bachelor of Laws (LL.B.) degree and the Juris Doctor (J.D.) degree; and WHEREAS, Both of these degrees normally signify a first professional de- gree in law; and WHEREAS, Graduation from an approved law school requires the successful completion of a course of study substantially above and beyond that re- quired for the bachelor's degree in the Arts or Sciences: and WHEREAS, The course of study in an approved law school is comparable to or more demanding than other professional courses of study in which the professional doctor's degree is awarded; and WHEREAS, It is deemed to be in the best interest of the public and of the legal profession that this confusion in terminology be eliminated and that the high standards of professional training and the competency of graduates of approved law schools be recognized by a uniform practice with respect to the title of the first degree in law. NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED THAT: The Section of Legal Edu- cation and Admissions to the Bar of The American Bar Association recom- mends for all approved law schools favorable consideration of the con- ferring of the degree of Juris Doctor (J.D.) by such schools on those students who successfully complete the program leading to the first professional de- gree in law. [1] https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publications/misc/legal_education/Standards/standardsarchive/1965_review.pdf https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publications/mis...