This argument reminds me of people who confuse market success with product quality. I.e. some people believe that if the product sells well, then it must be a

This argument reminds me of people who confuse market success with product quality. I.e. some people believe that if the product sells well, then it must be a good product. You don't need to try hard to convince yourself that there's no causal link between the two (eg. fast food sells well, but isn't good food, high-end goods usually don't sell well because buyers aren't willing to pay extra for marginal improvements). And so does your argument. The post OP was the reaction to was talking about quality and how misguided the whole field is in terms of using existing, concrete pieces of software s.a. React. And that is, unfortunately, the reality. Web is awful, especially because of how it's been developed, especially due to things like React. But it also sells well. But this wasn't the point. > Pay people to fix the tech/replace the janky or slow stuff/automate manual things. Sometimes? When circumstances allow that? This is not a given. And with the way Web is, and the way it's going, it's only getting worse. HTML is a bloated standard. JavaScript is an idiotic language. The GUI toolkit that browser offer is a combo of bloat and idiocy. The whole idea of making "single page applications" is idiotic because Web was never meant for that. It was meant to be an interface to what today we'd call a distributed document database. But is this going to change because individual programmers or individual companies recognize the problem? Are they going to fix / automate it? -- well, there's no way a single company, not even a mega international corporation at this point, which could do that. The argument the OP was the counter-argument to was saying that Web needs a different foundation and that no modern frameworks are any good. It didn't go as far (as I did) in claiming that the whole stack is garbage. Still, you are missing the point when you are making an abstract argument about using frameworks. The point was: "we have garbage frameworks in Web, and things are getting worse, let's take action to do things differently".