4 ms·

Would you, by the same logic, suggest that we filter drinking water less?

wkat4242 4y ago
That's a good example of training the immune system actually.. Go to southeast Asia where drinking water isn't so great. Drink it as a tourist and you'll spend a few days running to the toilet. But a native will drink it just fine as they're exposed to it all the time and their immune system has learned to deal with it. Low level exposure is good for that, you will find germs everywhere, not enough to make you sick but enough to give your immune system a heads-up for when it does come across a high level source of them like a contagious carrier.
- Eisenstein 4y ago
  They also do end up getting serious diseases. There is no way to filter 'just a little to get enough of the bad stuff out but keep a tiny bit in' and ensure safety. If you really believed this you would tell your surgeon not to bother wearing gloves or wash hands because you want to ensure your immune system is functioning ideally,
  - wkat4242 4y ago
    No, this is because a surgeon actually works with carriers of infectious diseases. So a direct source of these, rather than a passing encounter. And vulnerable patients (open wounds etc) of course. When the surgeon goes home on the metro he doesn't wear gloves either. Or a mask in many cases. Of course living in a sterile environment works but the problem is that you will then have to do it all the time everywhere. Otherwise the first time you're out of that environment your immune system will have to catch up on everything. And there's a whole spectrum in between. Perfect "safety" is not possible while having an actual life. The question is, does the covid pandemic indicate we should move towards the more sterile side of that spectrum? I personally don't think so, on the contrary. If you see the isolationist tactic employed by China it has been far less effective at getting the situation over with than our approach in the west. We were enjoying our lives for a year while the Chinese were still brutally locked up. In the case of Southeast Asia, just getting used to the water is far more easily achieved than fixing it everywhere due to the high cost of a good water system. Some people get ill but life always carries risk. And for foreigners there's always bottled water. In our case we make a different tradeoff. But training the immune system against common threats by exposing it to low level sources is really a thing. If it couldn't do that we would have been extinct millennia ago :) Because threats appear much faster than evolution can cope with them.
    - Eisenstein 4y ago
      > In the case of Southeast Asia, just getting used to the water is far more easily achieved than fixing it everywhere due to the high cost of a good water system. Some people get ill but life always carries risk. And for foreigners there's always bottled water. In our case we make a different tradeoff. 'Southeast Asia' doesn't make a trade-off because they analyzed the data and came to the conclusion that their population is better off with half-filtered water, they do it because they are poor and have bad infrastructure. Would you like their water supply so you can get your immune system trained? While at it maybe start eating unrefrigerated food. My friend from Africa did that growing up and has an iron stomach -- it sure does work (too bad about all the kids who died though because they got unlucky). The problem isn't 'it doesn't work', the problem is 'you can't just get rid of the awful bad ones and leave the kinda bad ones. Either you do it or you don't. This is why your type of argument is terrible.
      - wkat4242 4y ago
        It's just that I draw the line at "good enough" with where we are now. I'm ok with the risk and I don't want to go everywhere masked (which I find really horrible for historical trauma reasons) or bother with ventilation and sterilisation stuff. I will never do that kind of stuff willingly. If anything covid told me it's better not to be too fussy because it's over quickly (unlike China which really tried to kill it at all costs). But when people say the immune system can't be trained by exposure I just have to disagree.
        Eisenstein 4y ago
        That isn't what this thread is about. You tagged on to an argument that 'we need to keep our immune systems active', which is bullshit because getting cholera or covid is not healthy and keeping environments like HVAC/vent systems as sterile as possible (for instance using UVC) is important so that COVID doesn't blow into peoples faces in the unnatural environment of people crammed into small enclosed spaces.
        4y ago

That's a good example of training the immune system actually.. Go to southeast Asia where drinking water isn't so great. Drink it as a tourist and you'll spend a few days running to the toilet. But a native will drink it just fine as they're exposed to it all the time and their immune system has learned to deal with it. Low level exposure is good for that, you will find germs everywhere, not enough to make you sick but enough to give your immune system a heads-up for when it does come across a high level source of them like a contagious carrier.

Eisenstein 4y ago
They also do end up getting serious diseases. There is no way to filter 'just a little to get enough of the bad stuff out but keep a tiny bit in' and ensure safety. If you really believed this you would tell your surgeon not to bother wearing gloves or wash hands because you want to ensure your immune system is functioning ideally,
- wkat4242 4y ago
  No, this is because a surgeon actually works with carriers of infectious diseases. So a direct source of these, rather than a passing encounter. And vulnerable patients (open wounds etc) of course. When the surgeon goes home on the metro he doesn't wear gloves either. Or a mask in many cases. Of course living in a sterile environment works but the problem is that you will then have to do it all the time everywhere. Otherwise the first time you're out of that environment your immune system will have to catch up on everything. And there's a whole spectrum in between. Perfect "safety" is not possible while having an actual life. The question is, does the covid pandemic indicate we should move towards the more sterile side of that spectrum? I personally don't think so, on the contrary. If you see the isolationist tactic employed by China it has been far less effective at getting the situation over with than our approach in the west. We were enjoying our lives for a year while the Chinese were still brutally locked up. In the case of Southeast Asia, just getting used to the water is far more easily achieved than fixing it everywhere due to the high cost of a good water system. Some people get ill but life always carries risk. And for foreigners there's always bottled water. In our case we make a different tradeoff. But training the immune system against common threats by exposing it to low level sources is really a thing. If it couldn't do that we would have been extinct millennia ago :) Because threats appear much faster than evolution can cope with them.
  - Eisenstein 4y ago
    > In the case of Southeast Asia, just getting used to the water is far more easily achieved than fixing it everywhere due to the high cost of a good water system. Some people get ill but life always carries risk. And for foreigners there's always bottled water. In our case we make a different tradeoff. 'Southeast Asia' doesn't make a trade-off because they analyzed the data and came to the conclusion that their population is better off with half-filtered water, they do it because they are poor and have bad infrastructure. Would you like their water supply so you can get your immune system trained? While at it maybe start eating unrefrigerated food. My friend from Africa did that growing up and has an iron stomach -- it sure does work (too bad about all the kids who died though because they got unlucky). The problem isn't 'it doesn't work', the problem is 'you can't just get rid of the awful bad ones and leave the kinda bad ones. Either you do it or you don't. This is why your type of argument is terrible.
    - wkat4242 4y ago
      It's just that I draw the line at "good enough" with where we are now. I'm ok with the risk and I don't want to go everywhere masked (which I find really horrible for historical trauma reasons) or bother with ventilation and sterilisation stuff. I will never do that kind of stuff willingly. If anything covid told me it's better not to be too fussy because it's over quickly (unlike China which really tried to kill it at all costs). But when people say the immune system can't be trained by exposure I just have to disagree.
      - Eisenstein 4y ago
        That isn't what this thread is about. You tagged on to an argument that 'we need to keep our immune systems active', which is bullshit because getting cholera or covid is not healthy and keeping environments like HVAC/vent systems as sterile as possible (for instance using UVC) is important so that COVID doesn't blow into peoples faces in the unnatural environment of people crammed into small enclosed spaces.
        4y ago