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Obviously, this is problematic as it would be implemented currently, since age verification is necessarily tied to state identification, meaning that you're for

Obviously, this is problematic as it would be implemented currently, since age verification is necessarily tied to state identification, meaning that you're forced to give up your privacy to verify your age. If there was a good way to verify age without needing my full identity, I'd probably be in favor of something like this. God knows I'd prefer my kids don't have access to porn (although I'm not 100% sure I think they shouldn't be able to access it at all until they're 18, they're currently young enough that a total ban is correct). A few years back, some blockchain enthusiast was extolling to me the virtues of a blockchain backed identity system where you could provide some kind of verified attestation based on a credential - for example, I could use it to prove I'm 18 to the porn site without also giving forth all the other information on my ID. One of the more interesting ideas I've heard for blockchain. I don't know enough about the topic to know if a chain is _necessary_ for that use case, but I like the idea of being able to verify information in a minimally invasive way.

7e 4y ago
Blind signatures to the rescue?
arcticbull 4y ago
You can do that without the blockchain using something like Estonia's 20 year old digital signature scheme. All you need is a private key, not distributed consensus 'not your keys not your porn' silliness. [1] A blockchain doesn't help here because your personal identity is not a bearer token. If someone has your private keys they do not become you. And if they do have your private keys you better have some authority to revoke them. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signature_in_Estonia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signature_in_Estonia
- agentwiggles 4y ago
  That's really cool, I don't know how I'd never heard about this before. And yes, just in case it wasn't clear, I'm not advocating blockchain here, I have no stake in that stuff or any real understanding of it. But I do like the "digital signatures/attestations" idea. Thanks for sharing the wiki link, I'll have to do some more reading on Estonia's system.
chrisco255 4y ago
I personally believe this should be controlled at a device level, not at a state or national level. But on a theoretical basis, yes, you could use so-called "soul bound tokens" attached to an Ethereum address, for example, for this use case. A soul bound token is similar to an NFT, but cannot be traded. It is bound to a particular address. So in theory, you could go through some service provider for the identity verification, give them an Ethereum address to attach the 18+ SBT to, and then you could simply sign a message from that address for any website that required 18+ verification (would cost no gas, it's just a signature). See Vitalik's blog post on SBTs for more info: https://vitalik.ca/general/2022/01/26/soulbound.html https://vitalik.ca/general/2022/01/26/soulbound.html
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mildmotive 4y ago
> although I'm not 100% sure I think they shouldn't be able to access it at all until they're 18 Obviously I can’t tell you how to raise your own children, but you yourself are seeing that porn is harmful at least up to a certain age. It’s especially good to prevent porn during a child’s formative years. I would argue that porn isn’t good for anyone really, considering at least the following factors: 1. Like a drug, it numbs the senses and leads to the consumer needing more and more extreme content to feel the same level of satisfaction as before. 2. It’s not clear whether or not the female participants are consenting or not. Not too long ago PornHub got a lot of heat for spreading videos of the abuse of minors on their platform. They ended up having to purge millions of their videos because consent could not be verified. So imagine if God forbid you or your child unknowingly watches these types of abuse. 3. It changes the viewer’s attitude to women. Porn portrays women as public toilets, no dignity or honour whatsoever. 4. If you’re fine with other people’s daughters acting in these videos, then ask yourself: would you accept that for your own womenfolk? There is more to say, but let’s move on. You can technically bypass this using a VPN. What this law practically does is adding an additional hurdle for children from seeing this stuff, and that’s something good. Adults on the other hand, are generally speaking capable of setting up a VPN to bypass whatever filter they want.
- agentwiggles 4y ago
  Yeah, no real argument from me on most of that. I'm mostly hesitant due to my own understanding of my own desire to see naked women when I was a teenager and, to be crude about it, a pretty constant desire to jerk off. Obviously ideally my kids will stick to their imaginations and consenting partners, that's what I would wish for for them if I could. But I'm not sure it's a totally realistic expectation, and one of the weird things about being a parent but also a person who was once young is that I want my kids to have the opportunities to come to their own conclusions about what's good and bad for them. As another example, I don't want my kids to drink or smoke pot before they are of legal age to do so. And ideally, maybe never? But at the same time, occasionally doing that stuff when I was a young man was fun, and formed good memories and social bonds. While it's my role as a parent to set rules that they can't do those things, to issue consequences if I catch them smoking weed or drinking it whatever, I also understand the desire and think tm there's a certain... benefit, I guess, to their attempts to circumvent my rules? I realize I'm pretty much contradicting myself repeatedly here, and also failing to take a hard beneficial moral stance... but that seems to be part and parcel to the experience of being a parent but simultaneously remembering being a kid.

7e 4y ago

Blind signatures to the rescue?

arcticbull 4y ago

You can do that without the blockchain using something like Estonia's 20 year old digital signature scheme. All you need is a private key, not distributed consensus 'not your keys not your porn' silliness. [1] A blockchain doesn't help here because your personal identity is not a bearer token. If someone has your private keys they do not become you. And if they do have your private keys you better have some authority to revoke them. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signature_in_Estonia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signature_in_Estonia

agentwiggles 4y ago
That's really cool, I don't know how I'd never heard about this before. And yes, just in case it wasn't clear, I'm not advocating blockchain here, I have no stake in that stuff or any real understanding of it. But I do like the "digital signatures/attestations" idea. Thanks for sharing the wiki link, I'll have to do some more reading on Estonia's system.

chrisco255 4y ago

I personally believe this should be controlled at a device level, not at a state or national level. But on a theoretical basis, yes, you could use so-called "soul bound tokens" attached to an Ethereum address, for example, for this use case. A soul bound token is similar to an NFT, but cannot be traded. It is bound to a particular address. So in theory, you could go through some service provider for the identity verification, give them an Ethereum address to attach the 18+ SBT to, and then you could simply sign a message from that address for any website that required 18+ verification (would cost no gas, it's just a signature). See Vitalik's blog post on SBTs for more info: https://vitalik.ca/general/2022/01/26/soulbound.html https://vitalik.ca/general/2022/01/26/soulbound.html

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

mildmotive 4y ago

> although I'm not 100% sure I think they shouldn't be able to access it at all until they're 18 Obviously I can’t tell you how to raise your own children, but you yourself are seeing that porn is harmful at least up to a certain age. It’s especially good to prevent porn during a child’s formative years. I would argue that porn isn’t good for anyone really, considering at least the following factors: 1. Like a drug, it numbs the senses and leads to the consumer needing more and more extreme content to feel the same level of satisfaction as before. 2. It’s not clear whether or not the female participants are consenting or not. Not too long ago PornHub got a lot of heat for spreading videos of the abuse of minors on their platform. They ended up having to purge millions of their videos because consent could not be verified. So imagine if God forbid you or your child unknowingly watches these types of abuse. 3. It changes the viewer’s attitude to women. Porn portrays women as public toilets, no dignity or honour whatsoever. 4. If you’re fine with other people’s daughters acting in these videos, then ask yourself: would you accept that for your own womenfolk? There is more to say, but let’s move on. You can technically bypass this using a VPN. What this law practically does is adding an additional hurdle for children from seeing this stuff, and that’s something good. Adults on the other hand, are generally speaking capable of setting up a VPN to bypass whatever filter they want.

agentwiggles 4y ago
Yeah, no real argument from me on most of that. I'm mostly hesitant due to my own understanding of my own desire to see naked women when I was a teenager and, to be crude about it, a pretty constant desire to jerk off. Obviously ideally my kids will stick to their imaginations and consenting partners, that's what I would wish for for them if I could. But I'm not sure it's a totally realistic expectation, and one of the weird things about being a parent but also a person who was once young is that I want my kids to have the opportunities to come to their own conclusions about what's good and bad for them. As another example, I don't want my kids to drink or smoke pot before they are of legal age to do so. And ideally, maybe never? But at the same time, occasionally doing that stuff when I was a young man was fun, and formed good memories and social bonds. While it's my role as a parent to set rules that they can't do those things, to issue consequences if I catch them smoking weed or drinking it whatever, I also understand the desire and think tm there's a certain... benefit, I guess, to their attempts to circumvent my rules? I realize I'm pretty much contradicting myself repeatedly here, and also failing to take a hard beneficial moral stance... but that seems to be part and parcel to the experience of being a parent but simultaneously remembering being a kid.