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>Calling the view of approximately half the US population "unserious" is why we are where we are. A large amount of people think the Earth is flat. Am I now su

>Calling the view of approximately half the US population "unserious" is why we are where we are. A large amount of people think the Earth is flat. Am I now supposed to consider flat-earthers a serious position? >People who cannot fathom or refuse to accept some widespread opinion/view/belief of another is why I can perfectly fathom it, much like I can understand why someone would believe the Earth is flat. That doesn't make the position any less serious. >I think you ought to be more charitable to the opinion expressed by others, it's far more constructive. Much like a flat-earther, I consider those who think the taxation is theft have not put any actual research or thought into their position, and have simply come to that position by naively interpreting the first experiences they have come to understand from their senses.

0xbadc0de5 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Straw_man https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Straw_man
- nemothekid 4y ago
  I'm not sure how this is a strawman. My point is simply that just because a large number of people believe something, it does automatically make it a serious position.
pard68 4y ago
And yet belittling still gets you no where. Sounds like you aren't interested in conversing with others and rather just want to garner votes from your tribe.
- nemothekid 4y ago
  If you found my comments belittling, then you should consider if you have a personal attachment to the idea that taxation is theft. If I thought 2+2=5, and someone called me out as wrong, I wouldn't take personal offense to it. If you seriously think taxation is theft, I think the best I can offer is to think about how do you define ownership? Before you have theft, you must have ownership.
  - pard68 4y ago
    Calling the op's serious opinion unilaterally "unserious" is belittling.
    - nemothekid 4y ago
      There will never be a sufficiently nice enough way to call someone wrong on the internet.
  - 0xbadc0de5 4y ago
    > If you seriously think taxation is theft, I think the best I can offer is to think about how do you define ownership? Before you have theft, you must have ownership. I think this gives an interesting insight into the point of contention. It appears that one side views the money about to be taxed as their property whereas the other side views that money as something else. Is that a fair assessment? If someone views the money as their property and the act of taxation as the government seizing that property (especially if the government spends it unwisely), I can see a logical route to "taxation is theft." However, if someone views society as a group bound by a social contract with a shared responsibility to ensure nobody falls too far down the ladder lest they lose their ability to contribute to society, I can also see a logical path to "taxes are a shared responsibility for the maintenance of society." I still tend to think that government could fund all the welfare it needs if it simply stopped wasting so much money on cronyism and frivolous projects.
    - nemothekid 4y ago
      >Is that a fair assessment? Think about what you are saying when you say "my property". Owning something is not a natural law of the universe. If I go into your house and take your laptop how are you going to take it back? If I'm stronger than you, then tough shit. Or we have a war and if I win the war I take your stuff. Most people would call the police (the government) to sort it out, and the government will look at the law and decide who has rightful ownership. Your right to property is given to you by the state and you pay your taxes for that right. Without the state, you don't have property; you are a warlord with a gun up until a stronger warlord decides to run you over. >I still tend to think that government could fund all the welfare it needs if it simply stopped wasting so much money on cronyism and frivolous projects. This is entirely different from the "taxation is theft" angle, but somehow "taxation is theft" only ever seems to apply when it's used for welfare and not for highway subsidies. It's strange that you are not "robbing peter to pay paul" when taxes are used to bomb russians. The government collects revenue and must decide on the most efficient way to spend that revenue. Many economists have hypothesized that giving money directly to people is better than social programs such as food stamps.
Ferret7446 4y ago
> A large amount of people think the Earth is flat. Citation needed. I wager the actual statistic is a rounding error.

0xbadc0de5 4y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Straw_man https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Straw_man

nemothekid 4y ago
I'm not sure how this is a strawman. My point is simply that just because a large number of people believe something, it does automatically make it a serious position.

pard68 4y ago

And yet belittling still gets you no where. Sounds like you aren't interested in conversing with others and rather just want to garner votes from your tribe.

nemothekid 4y ago
If you found my comments belittling, then you should consider if you have a personal attachment to the idea that taxation is theft. If I thought 2+2=5, and someone called me out as wrong, I wouldn't take personal offense to it. If you seriously think taxation is theft, I think the best I can offer is to think about how do you define ownership? Before you have theft, you must have ownership.
- pard68 4y ago
  Calling the op's serious opinion unilaterally "unserious" is belittling.
  - nemothekid 4y ago
    There will never be a sufficiently nice enough way to call someone wrong on the internet.
- 0xbadc0de5 4y ago
  > If you seriously think taxation is theft, I think the best I can offer is to think about how do you define ownership? Before you have theft, you must have ownership. I think this gives an interesting insight into the point of contention. It appears that one side views the money about to be taxed as their property whereas the other side views that money as something else. Is that a fair assessment? If someone views the money as their property and the act of taxation as the government seizing that property (especially if the government spends it unwisely), I can see a logical route to "taxation is theft." However, if someone views society as a group bound by a social contract with a shared responsibility to ensure nobody falls too far down the ladder lest they lose their ability to contribute to society, I can also see a logical path to "taxes are a shared responsibility for the maintenance of society." I still tend to think that government could fund all the welfare it needs if it simply stopped wasting so much money on cronyism and frivolous projects.
  - nemothekid 4y ago
    >Is that a fair assessment? Think about what you are saying when you say "my property". Owning something is not a natural law of the universe. If I go into your house and take your laptop how are you going to take it back? If I'm stronger than you, then tough shit. Or we have a war and if I win the war I take your stuff. Most people would call the police (the government) to sort it out, and the government will look at the law and decide who has rightful ownership. Your right to property is given to you by the state and you pay your taxes for that right. Without the state, you don't have property; you are a warlord with a gun up until a stronger warlord decides to run you over. >I still tend to think that government could fund all the welfare it needs if it simply stopped wasting so much money on cronyism and frivolous projects. This is entirely different from the "taxation is theft" angle, but somehow "taxation is theft" only ever seems to apply when it's used for welfare and not for highway subsidies. It's strange that you are not "robbing peter to pay paul" when taxes are used to bomb russians. The government collects revenue and must decide on the most efficient way to spend that revenue. Many economists have hypothesized that giving money directly to people is better than social programs such as food stamps.

Ferret7446 4y ago

> A large amount of people think the Earth is flat. Citation needed. I wager the actual statistic is a rounding error.