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>I have a problem with taking something from Peter and giving it to Paul Calling taxation "stealing" is an incredibly unserious position. >My challenge to you

>I have a problem with taking something from Peter and giving it to Paul Calling taxation "stealing" is an incredibly unserious position. >My challenge to you is to increase your giving in 2023 If charity was an effective case against poverty, we wouldn't need "more" charity.

xwolfi 4y ago
Not at all, I come from France, and we've been robbed by taxation since the country started. There was a time where priests, from the church, came to collect in exchange of telling us all was well, we were at the position God wanted us to be and we should obey the local lord. Imagine paying taxes for that service and not calling it "stealing". One can challenge how tax are allocated or extracted. But it's hard because most people only care once it s so inefficient and unfair nothing works anymore. And I do wonder where the money could come for a universal income ... ourselves at best ? Foreigners at worst ?
- bronson 4y ago
  Replying with some vague hundreds-years-old anecdote is also incredibly unserious.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
pard68 4y ago
Calling the view of approximately half the US population "unserious" is why we are where we are. People who cannot fathom or refuse to accept some widespread opinion/view/belief of another is why we are mired in identity politics and are beholden to bands of 80 year old children yelling at one another between oxygen hits and running the country into the ground. I think you ought to be more charitable to the opinion expressed by others, it's far more constructive.
- NegativeK 4y ago
  Calling it stealing in the first place is inflammatory.
  - carlosjobim 4y ago
    Taxation by itself is inflammatory and has been the reason for most uprising, revolutions and wars since the beginning of history. Using a higher perspective it is easy to see that taxation is analogous to war.
- tunesmith 4y ago
  You are saying that half the US population views taxation as theft.
  - pard68 4y ago
    Technically just the income tax, but yes somewhere between 40 and 55 percent view it that way, the exact number depends on who is asking. Pew number are more like 55%, MSNBC lower.
    - tunesmith 4y ago
      Come on, seriously. Show your source. I've got a Pew chart here that says 53% say they "pay the right amount" in taxes, while another 4% say they pay less than their fair share. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/10/5-facts-on-how-americans-view-taxes/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/10/5-facts-on-... You're saying that half the population don't just say "more than my fair share", but that they view it as literal theft.
- ddoolin 4y ago
  It's certainly not half, and really how we get mired in these things is way more complex than what you mentioned; I'd argue a lot of getting bogged down and accomplishing nothing is people whose views are not worth consideration (not all of them are, shocker!) clamoring about how oppressed they are that their disingenuous positions are not being taken seriously. If someone really believes taxation is theft, that is past the point of consideration. That leaves little avenue for reconcile, makes the bias very clear, and puts on full display the lack of critical thinking.
deleted 4y ago
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none_to_remain 4y ago
>Calling taxation "stealing" is an incredibly unserious position. Yeah, taxation is obviously a protection racket, not theft.
- geomark 4y ago
  That is a more accurate description. Like organized crime forces you to buy its services under threat of violence if you don't, government forces you to pay taxes to fund its services under threat of violence if you don't. One difference is that you often can't even avail yourself of the services that the government is forcing you to pay for.

xwolfi 4y ago

Not at all, I come from France, and we've been robbed by taxation since the country started. There was a time where priests, from the church, came to collect in exchange of telling us all was well, we were at the position God wanted us to be and we should obey the local lord. Imagine paying taxes for that service and not calling it "stealing". One can challenge how tax are allocated or extracted. But it's hard because most people only care once it s so inefficient and unfair nothing works anymore. And I do wonder where the money could come for a universal income ... ourselves at best ? Foreigners at worst ?

bronson 4y ago
Replying with some vague hundreds-years-old anecdote is also incredibly unserious.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

pard68 4y ago

Calling the view of approximately half the US population "unserious" is why we are where we are. People who cannot fathom or refuse to accept some widespread opinion/view/belief of another is why we are mired in identity politics and are beholden to bands of 80 year old children yelling at one another between oxygen hits and running the country into the ground. I think you ought to be more charitable to the opinion expressed by others, it's far more constructive.

NegativeK 4y ago
Calling it stealing in the first place is inflammatory.
- carlosjobim 4y ago
  Taxation by itself is inflammatory and has been the reason for most uprising, revolutions and wars since the beginning of history. Using a higher perspective it is easy to see that taxation is analogous to war.
tunesmith 4y ago
You are saying that half the US population views taxation as theft.
- pard68 4y ago
  Technically just the income tax, but yes somewhere between 40 and 55 percent view it that way, the exact number depends on who is asking. Pew number are more like 55%, MSNBC lower.
  - tunesmith 4y ago
    Come on, seriously. Show your source. I've got a Pew chart here that says 53% say they "pay the right amount" in taxes, while another 4% say they pay less than their fair share. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/10/5-facts-on-how-americans-view-taxes/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/10/5-facts-on-... You're saying that half the population don't just say "more than my fair share", but that they view it as literal theft.
ddoolin 4y ago
It's certainly not half, and really how we get mired in these things is way more complex than what you mentioned; I'd argue a lot of getting bogged down and accomplishing nothing is people whose views are not worth consideration (not all of them are, shocker!) clamoring about how oppressed they are that their disingenuous positions are not being taken seriously. If someone really believes taxation is theft, that is past the point of consideration. That leaves little avenue for reconcile, makes the bias very clear, and puts on full display the lack of critical thinking.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

none_to_remain 4y ago

>Calling taxation "stealing" is an incredibly unserious position. Yeah, taxation is obviously a protection racket, not theft.

geomark 4y ago
That is a more accurate description. Like organized crime forces you to buy its services under threat of violence if you don't, government forces you to pay taxes to fund its services under threat of violence if you don't. One difference is that you often can't even avail yourself of the services that the government is forcing you to pay for.