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China restricted their entire society for almost 3 years, yet they've done ~nothing to shut down wet markets or convince average Chinese that wild/exotic meat i

China restricted their entire society for almost 3 years, yet they've done ~nothing to shut down wet markets or convince average Chinese that wild/exotic meat is dangerous. What conclusions should we draw from this?

anenefan 4y ago
The important aspect of a wet market / farmer's market is the removal of exotics from the trade. [1][2] There is a movement that simply doesn't like live animals prepared into food at the markets, or raw meat products hung in non sterile conditions and wrongly attribute aspects of the trade for any emerging disease. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-020-00677-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-020-00677-0 [2] https://says.com/my/news/china-finally-bans-trading-and-consumption-of-exotic-animals-amidst-covid-19-crisis https://says.com/my/news/china-finally-bans-trading-and-cons...
birdyrooster 4y ago
CCP is fucking useless and we have nothing to fear of their invasion of Taiwan. They seem to have found the least intelligent people of China to run the country and exported the smartest citizens.
lamontcg 4y ago
> What conclusions should we draw from this? Imagine the 2009 H1N1 pandemic originated on a pig farm on the US and not in Mexico, and that the pandemic death toll was as big as SARS-CoV-2. Now imagine the shit show that happens if Obama banned bacon.
- chitowneats 4y ago
  > Now imagine the shit show that happens if Obama banned bacon. It would have been, and should've been, a shit show! Which side exactly are you in arguing in favor of?
  - lamontcg 4y ago
    Substitute: H1N1 => SARS-CoV-2 USA => China Bacon => Civit Cats, Racoon dogs and the wildlife trade in China This is why China doesn't want to discover where it came from, because they'd have to take highly unpopular steps to ban the trade. Everyone here thinks they could do it tomorrow and just take a write down on the their balance sheet and move on. There would be a political cost to cracking down in China ("Obama banning bacon") in addition to a more stoic financial hit. And China really doesn't crack down that hard on wildly popular things because they don't want unrest. They'd rather have the West blame it on a lab leak and they can throw up a smokescreen claiming it came to China from Italy for their own domestic consumption, block any research into the zoonotic transfer, and not have to take any unpopular political actions.
    - chitowneats 4y ago
      If the inherent nature of bacon creation or trade caused a pandemic, and there was no reasonable way to mitigate it, it should be banned. If it can be mitigated, it should be! Why has this not happened in China? I know we Americans love our bacon but a good leader would do the right thing. There are plenty of other foods to eat. Added benefit is that a lot of them are a helluva lot more healthy than pig fat. You do offer a compelling counterpoint to my argument, however. Maybe the CCP think they can't ever ban wet markets, exotic meat, etc. Either due to concerns with implementation, or with popular anger over it, or both. I'm not convinced though. They are very ambitious with their social engineering. They "successfully" (genocide is always a terrible tragedy) interned millions of ethnic minorities, crushing their culture and religion, raping women, sterilizing people, forcing people to think of themselves as "Chinese" above all else, or at least pretend like they do. I wouldn't underestimate their propensity for heavy-handed state action. The ruling class certainly think highly of their of their own ability to influence events. Banning large wet markets like the one in Wuhan doesn't seem difficult when you consider the scope of their other "achievements". And also, their legitimate achievements. They don't have to fully ban the trade. They just have to make it more difficult. We're talking about a society that required regular COVID testing for citizens to be citizens, or even leave their apartments. The fact that they did basically nothing is glaring in my eyes.

anenefan 4y ago

The important aspect of a wet market / farmer's market is the removal of exotics from the trade. [1][2] There is a movement that simply doesn't like live animals prepared into food at the markets, or raw meat products hung in non sterile conditions and wrongly attribute aspects of the trade for any emerging disease. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-020-00677-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-020-00677-0 [2] https://says.com/my/news/china-finally-bans-trading-and-consumption-of-exotic-animals-amidst-covid-19-crisis https://says.com/my/news/china-finally-bans-trading-and-cons...

birdyrooster 4y ago

CCP is fucking useless and we have nothing to fear of their invasion of Taiwan. They seem to have found the least intelligent people of China to run the country and exported the smartest citizens.

lamontcg 4y ago

> What conclusions should we draw from this? Imagine the 2009 H1N1 pandemic originated on a pig farm on the US and not in Mexico, and that the pandemic death toll was as big as SARS-CoV-2. Now imagine the shit show that happens if Obama banned bacon.

chitowneats 4y ago
> Now imagine the shit show that happens if Obama banned bacon. It would have been, and should've been, a shit show! Which side exactly are you in arguing in favor of?
- lamontcg 4y ago
  Substitute: H1N1 => SARS-CoV-2 USA => China Bacon => Civit Cats, Racoon dogs and the wildlife trade in China This is why China doesn't want to discover where it came from, because they'd have to take highly unpopular steps to ban the trade. Everyone here thinks they could do it tomorrow and just take a write down on the their balance sheet and move on. There would be a political cost to cracking down in China ("Obama banning bacon") in addition to a more stoic financial hit. And China really doesn't crack down that hard on wildly popular things because they don't want unrest. They'd rather have the West blame it on a lab leak and they can throw up a smokescreen claiming it came to China from Italy for their own domestic consumption, block any research into the zoonotic transfer, and not have to take any unpopular political actions.
  - chitowneats 4y ago
    If the inherent nature of bacon creation or trade caused a pandemic, and there was no reasonable way to mitigate it, it should be banned. If it can be mitigated, it should be! Why has this not happened in China? I know we Americans love our bacon but a good leader would do the right thing. There are plenty of other foods to eat. Added benefit is that a lot of them are a helluva lot more healthy than pig fat. You do offer a compelling counterpoint to my argument, however. Maybe the CCP think they can't ever ban wet markets, exotic meat, etc. Either due to concerns with implementation, or with popular anger over it, or both. I'm not convinced though. They are very ambitious with their social engineering. They "successfully" (genocide is always a terrible tragedy) interned millions of ethnic minorities, crushing their culture and religion, raping women, sterilizing people, forcing people to think of themselves as "Chinese" above all else, or at least pretend like they do. I wouldn't underestimate their propensity for heavy-handed state action. The ruling class certainly think highly of their of their own ability to influence events. Banning large wet markets like the one in Wuhan doesn't seem difficult when you consider the scope of their other "achievements". And also, their legitimate achievements. They don't have to fully ban the trade. They just have to make it more difficult. We're talking about a society that required regular COVID testing for citizens to be citizens, or even leave their apartments. The fact that they did basically nothing is glaring in my eyes.