4 ms·

Maybe you're trying to imply lab escape hypothesis, but probably any origin in China, including natural sources causes them discomfort due to the fact that the

by bagels 4y ago

Maybe you're trying to imply lab escape hypothesis, but probably any origin in China, including natural sources causes them discomfort due to the fact that the initial response was denial.

option 4y ago
the world needs to know, this is bigger than China and their “discomfort”
- autoexec 4y ago
  China doesn't want anyone to start following up on that line of reasoning either. A lot of problems in China are "bigger than China". I doubt they'd want us snooping around looking into the specific sources of the air pollution they spread either (https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/03/518323094/rise-in-smog-in-western-u-s-is-blamed-on-asias-air-pollution https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/03/518323094...) China's problems involving climate change, human rights, censorship, manufacturing, product/consumer safety, and the economy all have global impacts but you can bet they don't want the rest of the world at their gates wanting to "do something" about any of it.
- kbelder 4y ago
  > this is bigger than China How sympathetic is China going to be to that argument?
  - option 4y ago
    if they draw limits on cooperation with the world on such an important issue, the world should start imposing limits on cooperation with China in this and possibly other areas.
    - lazide 4y ago
      Sounds like a good way to go broke. Good luck with that!
chitowneats 4y ago
China restricted their entire society for almost 3 years, yet they've done ~nothing to shut down wet markets or convince average Chinese that wild/exotic meat is dangerous. What conclusions should we draw from this?
- anenefan 4y ago
  The important aspect of a wet market / farmer's market is the removal of exotics from the trade. [1][2] There is a movement that simply doesn't like live animals prepared into food at the markets, or raw meat products hung in non sterile conditions and wrongly attribute aspects of the trade for any emerging disease. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-020-00677-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-020-00677-0 [2] https://says.com/my/news/china-finally-bans-trading-and-consumption-of-exotic-animals-amidst-covid-19-crisis https://says.com/my/news/china-finally-bans-trading-and-cons...
- birdyrooster 4y ago
  CCP is fucking useless and we have nothing to fear of their invasion of Taiwan. They seem to have found the least intelligent people of China to run the country and exported the smartest citizens.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  > What conclusions should we draw from this? Imagine the 2009 H1N1 pandemic originated on a pig farm on the US and not in Mexico, and that the pandemic death toll was as big as SARS-CoV-2. Now imagine the shit show that happens if Obama banned bacon.
  - chitowneats 4y ago
    > Now imagine the shit show that happens if Obama banned bacon. It would have been, and should've been, a shit show! Which side exactly are you in arguing in favor of?
    - lamontcg 4y ago
      Substitute: H1N1 => SARS-CoV-2 USA => China Bacon => Civit Cats, Racoon dogs and the wildlife trade in China This is why China doesn't want to discover where it came from, because they'd have to take highly unpopular steps to ban the trade. Everyone here thinks they could do it tomorrow and just take a write down on the their balance sheet and move on. There would be a political cost to cracking down in China ("Obama banning bacon") in addition to a more stoic financial hit. And China really doesn't crack down that hard on wildly popular things because they don't want unrest. They'd rather have the West blame it on a lab leak and they can throw up a smokescreen claiming it came to China from Italy for their own domestic consumption, block any research into the zoonotic transfer, and not have to take any unpopular political actions.
tootie 4y ago
There's no political upside for them. The Trumpian wing of western politics are going to believe whatever they want no matter what evidence comes out. There's a chance an investigation uncovers wrongdoing or recklessness at some level of Chinese bureaucracy be it a lab leak or just unsanitary meat handling or something else. Or they turn over every rock in Wuhan and still don't find conclusive proof of anything.

by bagels 4y ago

Maybe you're trying to imply lab escape hypothesis, but probably any origin in China, including natural sources causes them discomfort due to the fact that the initial response was denial.

option 4y ago

the world needs to know, this is bigger than China and their “discomfort”

autoexec 4y ago
China doesn't want anyone to start following up on that line of reasoning either. A lot of problems in China are "bigger than China". I doubt they'd want us snooping around looking into the specific sources of the air pollution they spread either (https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/03/518323094/rise-in-smog-in-western-u-s-is-blamed-on-asias-air-pollution https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/03/518323094...) China's problems involving climate change, human rights, censorship, manufacturing, product/consumer safety, and the economy all have global impacts but you can bet they don't want the rest of the world at their gates wanting to "do something" about any of it.
kbelder 4y ago
> this is bigger than China How sympathetic is China going to be to that argument?
- option 4y ago
  if they draw limits on cooperation with the world on such an important issue, the world should start imposing limits on cooperation with China in this and possibly other areas.
  - lazide 4y ago
    Sounds like a good way to go broke. Good luck with that!

chitowneats 4y ago

China restricted their entire society for almost 3 years, yet they've done ~nothing to shut down wet markets or convince average Chinese that wild/exotic meat is dangerous. What conclusions should we draw from this?

anenefan 4y ago
The important aspect of a wet market / farmer's market is the removal of exotics from the trade. [1][2] There is a movement that simply doesn't like live animals prepared into food at the markets, or raw meat products hung in non sterile conditions and wrongly attribute aspects of the trade for any emerging disease. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-020-00677-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-020-00677-0 [2] https://says.com/my/news/china-finally-bans-trading-and-consumption-of-exotic-animals-amidst-covid-19-crisis https://says.com/my/news/china-finally-bans-trading-and-cons...
birdyrooster 4y ago
CCP is fucking useless and we have nothing to fear of their invasion of Taiwan. They seem to have found the least intelligent people of China to run the country and exported the smartest citizens.
lamontcg 4y ago
> What conclusions should we draw from this? Imagine the 2009 H1N1 pandemic originated on a pig farm on the US and not in Mexico, and that the pandemic death toll was as big as SARS-CoV-2. Now imagine the shit show that happens if Obama banned bacon.
- chitowneats 4y ago
  > Now imagine the shit show that happens if Obama banned bacon. It would have been, and should've been, a shit show! Which side exactly are you in arguing in favor of?
  - lamontcg 4y ago
    Substitute: H1N1 => SARS-CoV-2 USA => China Bacon => Civit Cats, Racoon dogs and the wildlife trade in China This is why China doesn't want to discover where it came from, because they'd have to take highly unpopular steps to ban the trade. Everyone here thinks they could do it tomorrow and just take a write down on the their balance sheet and move on. There would be a political cost to cracking down in China ("Obama banning bacon") in addition to a more stoic financial hit. And China really doesn't crack down that hard on wildly popular things because they don't want unrest. They'd rather have the West blame it on a lab leak and they can throw up a smokescreen claiming it came to China from Italy for their own domestic consumption, block any research into the zoonotic transfer, and not have to take any unpopular political actions.

tootie 4y ago

There's no political upside for them. The Trumpian wing of western politics are going to believe whatever they want no matter what evidence comes out. There's a chance an investigation uncovers wrongdoing or recklessness at some level of Chinese bureaucracy be it a lab leak or just unsanitary meat handling or something else. Or they turn over every rock in Wuhan and still don't find conclusive proof of anything.