4 ms·

Where's the part of the Copilot EULA that indemifies users against copyright infringement for the generated code? If the model was trained entirely using code

Where's the part of the Copilot EULA that indemifies users against copyright infringement for the generated code? If the model was trained entirely using code that Microsoft has copyright over (for example: the MS Windows codebase, the MS Office codebase, etc.) then they could offer legal assurances that they have usage rights to the generated code as derivative works. Without such assurances, how do you know that the generated code is not subject to copyright and what license the generated code is under? Are you comfortable risking your company's IP by unknowingly using AGPLv3-licensed code [1] that Copilot "generated" in your company's products? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Affero_General_Public_License https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Affero_General_Public_Lice...

Gigachad 4y ago
Ultimately I think MS is right betting on the fact that this will not matter in the long run. All AI tools are trained on copyrighted data. The tools are too useful to cripple with restrictive laws written for a previous era.
- thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
  >> All AI tools are trained on copyrighted data. The tools are too useful to cripple with restrictive laws written for a previous era. Are you sure that Disney and Games Workshop will not mind if make your own Mickey Mouse / Warhammer 40K cross-over movie for profit? (I would watch it!) AI can help generate it, so it must be okay.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    Those are protected by trademark law which will still be strong in a post AI world. I'm sure those companies will be making massive use of AI to speed up content production.
    - thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
      You previously stated "The tools are too useful to cripple with restrictive laws written for a previous era." and also "Those are protected by trademark law which will still be strong in a post AI world." So do you believe in legal protections for trademarked and copyrighted works or not? If an AI assistant generates content that includes copyrighted or trademarked elements is the content "too useful to be crippled by restrictive laws" or "protected by laws which will still be strong" ?
- IceHegel 4y ago
  I agree. AI is happening. Don’t swim upstream.
- belorn 4y ago
  The pirate movement might have been a bit early for their time, but if AI happen to be the technology advancement needed for society to abolish copyright law then lets get it done. With everything from scihub getting blocked and people getting subscription fatigue, it is an excellent time for the restrictive laws to be replaced.
  - JoshTriplett 4y ago
    > The pirate movement might have been a bit early for their time, but if AI happen to be the technology advancement needed for society to abolish copyright law then lets get it done. No argument there; that'd be a huge victory. But until that happens, tools for "smart completions" need to provide appropriate licensing and attribution metadata.
- jonstewart 4y ago
  Napster was right to bet on music being accessible online but oh wait
- JoshTriplett 4y ago
  Please by all means have those laws repealed. Until then, a license violation remains a license violation no matter how much AI you run the code through.
- MagicMoonlight 4y ago
  It’s not AI if it’s just copying and pasting someone else’s code
charcircuit 4y ago
>Are you comfortable risking your company's IP by unknowingly using AGPLv3-licensed code that Copilot "generated" in your company's products? This would not risk your company's IP.
- thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
  >> This would not risk your company's IP. "The GNU Affero General Public License is a modified version of the ordinary GNU GPL version 3. It has one added requirement: if you run a modified program on a server and let other users communicate with it there, your server must also allow them to download the source code corresponding to the modified version running there." So your company is okay providing all their source code to users? I know that some companies do this, but most do not.
  - charcircuit 4y ago
    >So your company is okay providing all their source code to users? Nothing is forcing them to do that. If they are infringing they simply need to delete the infringing code and rewrite it by hand.
    - thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
      >> Nothing is forcing them to do that. If you use AGPLv3-licensed code in your codebase, you are agreeing to the terms of the license. Practically all corporate legal teams for companies that creates software will strictly prohibit the use of AGPLv3-licensed software, if not all GPL-based licenses.
      - ndriscoll 4y ago
        Using AGPL code doesn't mean you agree to the terms. It means if you don't agree to and obey the terms, you don't have a license, which is copyright infringement.
        4y ago
Maxious 4y ago
Copilot for Business includes an $500k indemnity if you turn on excluding suggestions that match open source code https://github.com/customer-terms/github-copilot-product-specific-terms https://github.com/customer-terms/github-copilot-product-spe...
- hobs 4y ago
  I wonder if the procurement departments get to negotiate that higher for the bigger contracts, because that's low imo.
- thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
  Good to know, but there are caveats: "GitHub’s defense obligations do not apply if (i) the claim is based on Code that differs from a Suggestion provided by GitHub Copilot, (ii) you fail to follow reasonable software development review practices designed to prevent the intentional or inadvertent use of Code in a way that may violate the intellectual property or other rights of a third party, or (iii) you have not enabled all filtering features available in GitHub Copilot." Do they define what constitutes "reasonable software development review practices designed to prevent the intentional or inadvertent use of Code in a way that may violate the intellectual property or other rights of a third party" ?
  - filereaper 4y ago
    >(iii) you have not enabled all filtering features available in GitHub Copilot I was trying to find out what these exact filtering settings are but I land at this page [1]. The other links just download the Product Specific terms PDF again. Not sure if this is an oversight or intentionally intended to be circular. [1] https://docs.github.com/en/copilot/configuring-github-copilot/configuring-github-copilot-settings-on-githubcom https://docs.github.com/en/copilot/configuring-github-copilo...
- fire 4y ago
  this seems like it covers non-business copilot as well

Gigachad 4y ago

Ultimately I think MS is right betting on the fact that this will not matter in the long run. All AI tools are trained on copyrighted data. The tools are too useful to cripple with restrictive laws written for a previous era.

thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
>> All AI tools are trained on copyrighted data. The tools are too useful to cripple with restrictive laws written for a previous era. Are you sure that Disney and Games Workshop will not mind if make your own Mickey Mouse / Warhammer 40K cross-over movie for profit? (I would watch it!) AI can help generate it, so it must be okay.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Those are protected by trademark law which will still be strong in a post AI world. I'm sure those companies will be making massive use of AI to speed up content production.
  - thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
    You previously stated "The tools are too useful to cripple with restrictive laws written for a previous era." and also "Those are protected by trademark law which will still be strong in a post AI world." So do you believe in legal protections for trademarked and copyrighted works or not? If an AI assistant generates content that includes copyrighted or trademarked elements is the content "too useful to be crippled by restrictive laws" or "protected by laws which will still be strong" ?
IceHegel 4y ago
I agree. AI is happening. Don’t swim upstream.
belorn 4y ago
The pirate movement might have been a bit early for their time, but if AI happen to be the technology advancement needed for society to abolish copyright law then lets get it done. With everything from scihub getting blocked and people getting subscription fatigue, it is an excellent time for the restrictive laws to be replaced.
- JoshTriplett 4y ago
  > The pirate movement might have been a bit early for their time, but if AI happen to be the technology advancement needed for society to abolish copyright law then lets get it done. No argument there; that'd be a huge victory. But until that happens, tools for "smart completions" need to provide appropriate licensing and attribution metadata.
jonstewart 4y ago
Napster was right to bet on music being accessible online but oh wait
JoshTriplett 4y ago
Please by all means have those laws repealed. Until then, a license violation remains a license violation no matter how much AI you run the code through.
MagicMoonlight 4y ago
It’s not AI if it’s just copying and pasting someone else’s code

charcircuit 4y ago

>Are you comfortable risking your company's IP by unknowingly using AGPLv3-licensed code that Copilot "generated" in your company's products? This would not risk your company's IP.

thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
>> This would not risk your company's IP. "The GNU Affero General Public License is a modified version of the ordinary GNU GPL version 3. It has one added requirement: if you run a modified program on a server and let other users communicate with it there, your server must also allow them to download the source code corresponding to the modified version running there." So your company is okay providing all their source code to users? I know that some companies do this, but most do not.
- charcircuit 4y ago
  >So your company is okay providing all their source code to users? Nothing is forcing them to do that. If they are infringing they simply need to delete the infringing code and rewrite it by hand.
  - thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
    >> Nothing is forcing them to do that. If you use AGPLv3-licensed code in your codebase, you are agreeing to the terms of the license. Practically all corporate legal teams for companies that creates software will strictly prohibit the use of AGPLv3-licensed software, if not all GPL-based licenses.
    - ndriscoll 4y ago
      Using AGPL code doesn't mean you agree to the terms. It means if you don't agree to and obey the terms, you don't have a license, which is copyright infringement.
      - 4y ago

Maxious 4y ago

Copilot for Business includes an $500k indemnity if you turn on excluding suggestions that match open source code https://github.com/customer-terms/github-copilot-product-specific-terms https://github.com/customer-terms/github-copilot-product-spe...

hobs 4y ago
I wonder if the procurement departments get to negotiate that higher for the bigger contracts, because that's low imo.
thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
Good to know, but there are caveats: "GitHub’s defense obligations do not apply if (i) the claim is based on Code that differs from a Suggestion provided by GitHub Copilot, (ii) you fail to follow reasonable software development review practices designed to prevent the intentional or inadvertent use of Code in a way that may violate the intellectual property or other rights of a third party, or (iii) you have not enabled all filtering features available in GitHub Copilot." Do they define what constitutes "reasonable software development review practices designed to prevent the intentional or inadvertent use of Code in a way that may violate the intellectual property or other rights of a third party" ?
- filereaper 4y ago
  >(iii) you have not enabled all filtering features available in GitHub Copilot I was trying to find out what these exact filtering settings are but I land at this page [1]. The other links just download the Product Specific terms PDF again. Not sure if this is an oversight or intentionally intended to be circular. [1] https://docs.github.com/en/copilot/configuring-github-copilot/configuring-github-copilot-settings-on-githubcom https://docs.github.com/en/copilot/configuring-github-copilo...
fire 4y ago
this seems like it covers non-business copilot as well