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1. Vehicular drivers have no incentive to care. The laws around liability have to be changed. 2. Cities have to deprioritize car traffic to below pedestrians

1. Vehicular drivers have no incentive to care. The laws around liability have to be changed. 2. Cities have to deprioritize car traffic to below pedestrians, bicycles, buses/trams. Free parking mandated or provided by the city needs to be eliminated. Zoning for building dense hS to be loosened up. Thankfully, this trend is picking up. Car lifestyle is heavily subsidized by the state now.

Spivak 4y ago
Wish granted! monkey's paw curls * Bicycles are now granted the same "always have right of way" status as pedestrians. The ensuing panic following the damages payout for the first cyclist to be maimed by a vehicle causes local governments to enact laws restricting cyclists to designated bike lanes and sidewalks. The bill is sold as a measure to protect cyclists but it's really so insurance premiums for drivers don't go up. Since breaking local laws doesn't eliminate the liability the city police aggressively ticket cyclists who "jayride." * Minimum parking spaces mandated by the city go away. And nothing changes because parking spaces in tight areas are worth their weight in gold to the businesses that own them. * Zoning for multi-family homes and apartment complexes open up. Developers see $$$ and buy up land in trendy well-to-do areas and build "luxury" apartment complexes. It's great for a while until those apartment dwellers want more space and to stop paying rent forever and move to where you can still find affordable single family homes -- low income areas! Ooops, you wanted to avoid gentrification, right? You can't law your way out of a culture that likes cars and single family homes. You have to make a desirable end-state for people with kids and hobbies. This might work in SF where there is a huge amount of latent demand but in your average med sized city it'll backfire.
- bluefirebrand 4y ago
  > You have to make a desirable end-state for people with kids and hobbies. This is the thing I never really understand. Dense urban living seems very nice for young workers who want cheap rent and a small walkable world. It's pretty hostile to having children or any hobbies that take any kind of space. You can't have a metalworking shop in a condo.
  - entropyie 4y ago
    You need to open your mind a bit. There is something in between the 50 storey apartment block and detached suburban sprawl. Liveable cities have 4-5 stories, wide footpaths, car-free squares where kids can be supervised at a distance but mostly left to their own devices. Amenities within walking/biking distance. As a parent, I trade off having less space in exchange for a walkable environment for my children to play and live in. I am lucky to live in a city where my children can safely walk to their friends house and take a city bus to school. They have some autonomy and won't be arrested for going to buy a doughnut unsupervised, like in the USA. Also, no, I don't have my own metalworking shop, but I do have a Hackerspace nearby, which not only has more tools and equipment than I could ever need, but people to enjoy them with. The US suburban life is all fear and isolation based. Your home is your castle, your lawn is a moat. Your SUV/Pickup is your steed, used to go into battle every day with a hostile world. You can have a gun before you can have a beer... You only think you need all that space because your are not willing to share it with others as part of a communal society.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - Spivak 4y ago
      It’s not about not wanting to share it, it’s about owning it in the first place. I can’t share what I don’t own. All my leisure time rented to me by the hour isn’t community. Listing a friend who is between leases crash in your spare room and use your garage to store their stuff is community. Handing out all the fresh vegetables you grew this season to your neighbors is community. Loaning your friend tools for a renovation they’re doing is community. Having band practice in your garage is community. Look, I agree with you, it would be amazing if we had actual community spaces, but I didn’t make the system I just live in it. Short of starting a commune (I’ve tried, there was a 4k square ft repurposed church with like 12 bedrooms and lots of land in the city for less than the average home I wanted to go in on with my friends) having a home is the best you can do to have a space that’s yours and you can share with others.
    - lotsoweiners 4y ago
- hhahhok 4y ago
  So we change focus on the outcomes of change. That’s how it goes. Science. shrug Stop posting hyper generalized subjective perspectives as expert opinion? It just gets sad and you come off like an entitled know it all. Jfc the internet is full of idiots and empty back and forth.
- lmm 4y ago
  > Minimum parking spaces mandated by the city go away. And nothing changes because parking spaces in tight areas are worth their weight in gold to the businesses that own them. We have lists of businesses that are not getting built right now because they can't afford enough space to build both the store and the mandated parking. Business owners tend to overestimate how far their customers are coming from and hence their parking needs, but they'll be outcompeted by those who get it right. > It's great for a while until those apartment dwellers want more space and to stop paying rent forever and move to where you can still find affordable single family homes -- low income areas! Ooops, you wanted to avoid gentrification, right? Gentrification is the problem of prices going way up when a place gets made nicer. Stopping making places nicer is cutting our nose off to spite our face; rather we should make more places nicer so that the price of nice places isn't so high.
  - jhbadger 4y ago
    For some version of "nicer" which is often not that of the residents. I've lived in neighborhoods that were gentrified. What happened was that luxury condos were built, rents went up, all the interesting independent stores and restaurants moved out or folded because they couldn't afford the new rents, and generic chain restaurants and stores that you can find at any mall moved in. Not an improvement in my opinion.
bb88 4y ago
I am someone that worries about hitting a bicyclist. To do a proper right turn in the US in 2023 there are three directions a driver needs to look. 1. To the left for oncoming car and bike traffic. 2. To the right for bicyclists riding up the wrong way of the street or on the sidewalk riding towards you. 3. Behind and to the right for any bicyclists that choose to pass your car on the right while you're making a right turn (even if you're signaling your turn). For context 2 & 3 happen to me more than once per year.
- 121789 4y ago
  I agree with both of you actually. I also don't bike because of all the close calls and real injuries I've seen with careless drivers, but ALSO because when I'm driving myself I feel like it's easy to hit someone by accident especially when they are in the right lane. I wish there was more dedicated bike infrastructure, which seems like it would solve both problems
- byteCoder 4y ago
  As a cyclist (on a designated bike path), I was hit by a small SUV in case #2. The driver looked to the right and I thought our eyes connected, but he proceeded from the stop sign to make a right turn right into me. Fortunately, he stopped as soon as he knew he hit something and I only ended up under his bumper, with a slightly bent up bike and major bruise on my left thigh. In this case, I would have actually been safer (and in better view of this driver) if I had been riding on the road. Up to that time, I rode over 1,000 miles outside in the summer, mostly on roads. Now, I no longer trust traffic at all and ride mostly on the extensive bike trail system in Minneapolis-Saint Paul metro area, except when I consider the road to be a better option. The thought of sharing the road with distracted drivers and other drivers who choose to be assholes to cyclists makes the road riding just too risky.
  - D13Fd 4y ago
    > I was hit by a small SUV in case #2. > 2. To the right for bicyclists riding up the wrong way of the street or on the sidewalk riding towards you. Is biking the wrong direction on a bike path on a one-way street legal in the state or country that you were in? Are you surprised that you got hit when you were biking going the wrong way down a one-way street?
sershe 4y ago
Hmm, if we do that (as a formerly avid cycling commuter) can we also make it so blasting thru the red light (on non empty streets), riding wrong way on the road, talking on your phone while riding, etc - something I saw pretty much daily when I used to ride - is treated as seriously as the same for cars?

Spivak 4y ago

Wish granted! monkey's paw curls * Bicycles are now granted the same "always have right of way" status as pedestrians. The ensuing panic following the damages payout for the first cyclist to be maimed by a vehicle causes local governments to enact laws restricting cyclists to designated bike lanes and sidewalks. The bill is sold as a measure to protect cyclists but it's really so insurance premiums for drivers don't go up. Since breaking local laws doesn't eliminate the liability the city police aggressively ticket cyclists who "jayride." * Minimum parking spaces mandated by the city go away. And nothing changes because parking spaces in tight areas are worth their weight in gold to the businesses that own them. * Zoning for multi-family homes and apartment complexes open up. Developers see $$$ and buy up land in trendy well-to-do areas and build "luxury" apartment complexes. It's great for a while until those apartment dwellers want more space and to stop paying rent forever and move to where you can still find affordable single family homes -- low income areas! Ooops, you wanted to avoid gentrification, right? You can't law your way out of a culture that likes cars and single family homes. You have to make a desirable end-state for people with kids and hobbies. This might work in SF where there is a huge amount of latent demand but in your average med sized city it'll backfire.

bluefirebrand 4y ago
> You have to make a desirable end-state for people with kids and hobbies. This is the thing I never really understand. Dense urban living seems very nice for young workers who want cheap rent and a small walkable world. It's pretty hostile to having children or any hobbies that take any kind of space. You can't have a metalworking shop in a condo.
- entropyie 4y ago
  You need to open your mind a bit. There is something in between the 50 storey apartment block and detached suburban sprawl. Liveable cities have 4-5 stories, wide footpaths, car-free squares where kids can be supervised at a distance but mostly left to their own devices. Amenities within walking/biking distance. As a parent, I trade off having less space in exchange for a walkable environment for my children to play and live in. I am lucky to live in a city where my children can safely walk to their friends house and take a city bus to school. They have some autonomy and won't be arrested for going to buy a doughnut unsupervised, like in the USA. Also, no, I don't have my own metalworking shop, but I do have a Hackerspace nearby, which not only has more tools and equipment than I could ever need, but people to enjoy them with. The US suburban life is all fear and isolation based. Your home is your castle, your lawn is a moat. Your SUV/Pickup is your steed, used to go into battle every day with a hostile world. You can have a gun before you can have a beer... You only think you need all that space because your are not willing to share it with others as part of a communal society.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Spivak 4y ago
    It’s not about not wanting to share it, it’s about owning it in the first place. I can’t share what I don’t own. All my leisure time rented to me by the hour isn’t community. Listing a friend who is between leases crash in your spare room and use your garage to store their stuff is community. Handing out all the fresh vegetables you grew this season to your neighbors is community. Loaning your friend tools for a renovation they’re doing is community. Having band practice in your garage is community. Look, I agree with you, it would be amazing if we had actual community spaces, but I didn’t make the system I just live in it. Short of starting a commune (I’ve tried, there was a 4k square ft repurposed church with like 12 bedrooms and lots of land in the city for less than the average home I wanted to go in on with my friends) having a home is the best you can do to have a space that’s yours and you can share with others.
  - lotsoweiners 4y ago
hhahhok 4y ago
So we change focus on the outcomes of change. That’s how it goes. Science. shrug Stop posting hyper generalized subjective perspectives as expert opinion? It just gets sad and you come off like an entitled know it all. Jfc the internet is full of idiots and empty back and forth.
lmm 4y ago
> Minimum parking spaces mandated by the city go away. And nothing changes because parking spaces in tight areas are worth their weight in gold to the businesses that own them. We have lists of businesses that are not getting built right now because they can't afford enough space to build both the store and the mandated parking. Business owners tend to overestimate how far their customers are coming from and hence their parking needs, but they'll be outcompeted by those who get it right. > It's great for a while until those apartment dwellers want more space and to stop paying rent forever and move to where you can still find affordable single family homes -- low income areas! Ooops, you wanted to avoid gentrification, right? Gentrification is the problem of prices going way up when a place gets made nicer. Stopping making places nicer is cutting our nose off to spite our face; rather we should make more places nicer so that the price of nice places isn't so high.
- jhbadger 4y ago
  For some version of "nicer" which is often not that of the residents. I've lived in neighborhoods that were gentrified. What happened was that luxury condos were built, rents went up, all the interesting independent stores and restaurants moved out or folded because they couldn't afford the new rents, and generic chain restaurants and stores that you can find at any mall moved in. Not an improvement in my opinion.

bb88 4y ago

I am someone that worries about hitting a bicyclist. To do a proper right turn in the US in 2023 there are three directions a driver needs to look. 1. To the left for oncoming car and bike traffic. 2. To the right for bicyclists riding up the wrong way of the street or on the sidewalk riding towards you. 3. Behind and to the right for any bicyclists that choose to pass your car on the right while you're making a right turn (even if you're signaling your turn). For context 2 & 3 happen to me more than once per year.

121789 4y ago
I agree with both of you actually. I also don't bike because of all the close calls and real injuries I've seen with careless drivers, but ALSO because when I'm driving myself I feel like it's easy to hit someone by accident especially when they are in the right lane. I wish there was more dedicated bike infrastructure, which seems like it would solve both problems
byteCoder 4y ago
As a cyclist (on a designated bike path), I was hit by a small SUV in case #2. The driver looked to the right and I thought our eyes connected, but he proceeded from the stop sign to make a right turn right into me. Fortunately, he stopped as soon as he knew he hit something and I only ended up under his bumper, with a slightly bent up bike and major bruise on my left thigh. In this case, I would have actually been safer (and in better view of this driver) if I had been riding on the road. Up to that time, I rode over 1,000 miles outside in the summer, mostly on roads. Now, I no longer trust traffic at all and ride mostly on the extensive bike trail system in Minneapolis-Saint Paul metro area, except when I consider the road to be a better option. The thought of sharing the road with distracted drivers and other drivers who choose to be assholes to cyclists makes the road riding just too risky.
- D13Fd 4y ago
  > I was hit by a small SUV in case #2. > 2. To the right for bicyclists riding up the wrong way of the street or on the sidewalk riding towards you. Is biking the wrong direction on a bike path on a one-way street legal in the state or country that you were in? Are you surprised that you got hit when you were biking going the wrong way down a one-way street?

sershe 4y ago

Hmm, if we do that (as a formerly avid cycling commuter) can we also make it so blasting thru the red light (on non empty streets), riding wrong way on the road, talking on your phone while riding, etc - something I saw pretty much daily when I used to ride - is treated as seriously as the same for cars?