4 ms·

If only there was a company with experience in electric cars..

by Seanambers 4y ago

sunshinekitty 4y ago
Thank god for the free market and competition, choice is in the interest of consumers.
cmh89 4y ago
You mean the one that famously has terrible quality control?
- leesec 4y ago
  Is this the same car that is famously about to be best seller even tho it's 2-3x the price of the current best seller?
  - rtkwe 4y ago
    Slow down the oblique shots have gotten so vague I've lost track.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- stephbu 4y ago
  Post-production QA is an industry problem in general - the difference between systems is who does the QA. In the dealership model - after transit, they do a once over and post-production/transit repairs before the car appears on the lot. So much so that most states wrote legislation to limit repairs allowed while still being called "new". (often ~5% of the retail value of the car). Note that dealers also pay wholesale rates on the cost estimate for that, so this can be quite large repairs. The T* direct-model should put the SC in that same spot. Bug is they're not doing the work - probably the emphasis on throughput incentivizes the wrong behavior. All too often the the SC tries to palm-off problems and/or the consumer has to do drive QA. Fixing it means the customer is on point - obviously YMMV. IMHO this is a huge gap and flaw. Unfortunately OEM dealership behavior is so predatorily atrocious that even this flaw isn't enough to overcome the otherwise positive T* sales experience. I now know how few signatures are needed to buy a car in my state. I have zero intention of participating in the "sit outside of a finance office for an hour, no I don't need Scotchgard, interest rate manipulation" routine ever again. Dealerships often talk about "relationships" - this BS sales talk - we're just prey to them.
stephbu 4y ago
Doesn't matter if you like or dislike the T-word or EM-himself. Fact is they have built one hell of an experienced/industrialized muscle in this field. That experience is priceless right now - Ford, VW, GM etc. don't just need to run-as-fast, they need to run faster. All the while not repeating the mistakes that others were allowed to make when there were less optics on the problem. This technology change is going to be a capital-intensive, painful experience for the incumbents.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Incumbents thought they were going to be bin assemblers as they’ve always been, not an engineering first org with cutting edge battery technology experience. Oops. Can’t MBA way your way to the lead, physics cannot be fooled. I hope they catch up, the space needs robust competition. This is also why Tesla is building and selling 40GWh/year of stationary storage from their Lathrop Megapack manufacturing facility; their battery management systems are proven under the harshest conditions vehicles see. Utility storage demands are comparatively benign compared to high end powertrain duty cycles in top trims.
Arrath 4y ago
Like Toyota (Prius), Nissan (Leaf), or Chevy (Bolt)? Among others.
kotaKat 4y ago
Like GM, who had their EV packs fail and catch fire? Like Toyota, who had their HEV software fail in extreme cold and need an update? No automaker is perfect.
mtmail 4y ago
You mean Toyota? Or is Telsa implied? Model 3 had 15 recalls in 2020, 14 in 2021, 9 in 2022 with basics like "One or both taillights may intermittently fail to illuminate."
- beambot 4y ago
  What fraction of the recalls were fixed via OTA software updates?
  - ggreer 4y ago
    For my 2020 Model 3, all but one of them. There was a recall to replace a cable in the trunk that could break, disabling the backup camera.[1] I still haven’t taken mine in to get the free replacement, but my backup camera has been fine. 1. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/every-single-tesla-model-3-recalled-to-fix-backup-camera-a4388327487/ https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/every-si...
- leesec 4y ago
  Most (all?) of these 'recalls' were fixed over the air
  - LightDub 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - leesec 4y ago
      They're not but OK. Also what you posted agreed with what I posted.
    - readthenotes1 4y ago
      They are just another vehicle manufacturer that fixes many recalls OTA without making you take time off work and go into the shop so they can upsell you on something else? That seems kind of unusual to me, but I drive a 22 year old car.
LightDub 4y ago
Yes, Hyundai/Kia are out there!
- rattlesnakedave 4y ago
  Hopefully in a secure location.
  - LightDub 4y ago
    The new generation, Hyundai ioniq 5 and Kia EV6, have immobilisers. And they have the added benefit of not looking ugly.
- doubled112 4y ago
  Hyundai/Kia seems to be having a fair amount of recalls about potential fires in things that don't normally catch fire. The idea of packing them full of lithium is not drawing me in right this moment.
whalesalad 4y ago
competition is the fuel of our entire economy
willnonya 4y ago
If only any of them made good EVs... Or even better weren't trading one ecological disaster for another.
- themitigating 4y ago
  Which is less of a disaster? That's all that matters and you making it a binary situation is overly simplistic and likely done on purpose due to your political beliefs

If only there was a company with experience in electric cars..

sunshinekitty 4y ago

Thank god for the free market and competition, choice is in the interest of consumers.

cmh89 4y ago

You mean the one that famously has terrible quality control?

leesec 4y ago
Is this the same car that is famously about to be best seller even tho it's 2-3x the price of the current best seller?
- rtkwe 4y ago
  Slow down the oblique shots have gotten so vague I've lost track.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
stephbu 4y ago
Post-production QA is an industry problem in general - the difference between systems is who does the QA. In the dealership model - after transit, they do a once over and post-production/transit repairs before the car appears on the lot. So much so that most states wrote legislation to limit repairs allowed while still being called "new". (often ~5% of the retail value of the car). Note that dealers also pay wholesale rates on the cost estimate for that, so this can be quite large repairs. The T* direct-model should put the SC in that same spot. Bug is they're not doing the work - probably the emphasis on throughput incentivizes the wrong behavior. All too often the the SC tries to palm-off problems and/or the consumer has to do drive QA. Fixing it means the customer is on point - obviously YMMV. IMHO this is a huge gap and flaw. Unfortunately OEM dealership behavior is so predatorily atrocious that even this flaw isn't enough to overcome the otherwise positive T* sales experience. I now know how few signatures are needed to buy a car in my state. I have zero intention of participating in the "sit outside of a finance office for an hour, no I don't need Scotchgard, interest rate manipulation" routine ever again. Dealerships often talk about "relationships" - this BS sales talk - we're just prey to them.

stephbu 4y ago

Doesn't matter if you like or dislike the T-word or EM-himself. Fact is they have built one hell of an experienced/industrialized muscle in this field. That experience is priceless right now - Ford, VW, GM etc. don't just need to run-as-fast, they need to run faster. All the while not repeating the mistakes that others were allowed to make when there were less optics on the problem. This technology change is going to be a capital-intensive, painful experience for the incumbents.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
Incumbents thought they were going to be bin assemblers as they’ve always been, not an engineering first org with cutting edge battery technology experience. Oops. Can’t MBA way your way to the lead, physics cannot be fooled. I hope they catch up, the space needs robust competition. This is also why Tesla is building and selling 40GWh/year of stationary storage from their Lathrop Megapack manufacturing facility; their battery management systems are proven under the harshest conditions vehicles see. Utility storage demands are comparatively benign compared to high end powertrain duty cycles in top trims.

Arrath 4y ago

Like Toyota (Prius), Nissan (Leaf), or Chevy (Bolt)? Among others.

kotaKat 4y ago

Like GM, who had their EV packs fail and catch fire? Like Toyota, who had their HEV software fail in extreme cold and need an update? No automaker is perfect.

mtmail 4y ago

You mean Toyota? Or is Telsa implied? Model 3 had 15 recalls in 2020, 14 in 2021, 9 in 2022 with basics like "One or both taillights may intermittently fail to illuminate."

beambot 4y ago
What fraction of the recalls were fixed via OTA software updates?
- ggreer 4y ago
  For my 2020 Model 3, all but one of them. There was a recall to replace a cable in the trunk that could break, disabling the backup camera.[1] I still haven’t taken mine in to get the free replacement, but my backup camera has been fine. 1. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/every-single-tesla-model-3-recalled-to-fix-backup-camera-a4388327487/ https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/every-si...
leesec 4y ago
Most (all?) of these 'recalls' were fixed over the air
- LightDub 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - leesec 4y ago
    They're not but OK. Also what you posted agreed with what I posted.
  - readthenotes1 4y ago
    They are just another vehicle manufacturer that fixes many recalls OTA without making you take time off work and go into the shop so they can upsell you on something else? That seems kind of unusual to me, but I drive a 22 year old car.

LightDub 4y ago

Yes, Hyundai/Kia are out there!

rattlesnakedave 4y ago
Hopefully in a secure location.
- LightDub 4y ago
  The new generation, Hyundai ioniq 5 and Kia EV6, have immobilisers. And they have the added benefit of not looking ugly.
doubled112 4y ago
Hyundai/Kia seems to be having a fair amount of recalls about potential fires in things that don't normally catch fire. The idea of packing them full of lithium is not drawing me in right this moment.

whalesalad 4y ago

competition is the fuel of our entire economy

willnonya 4y ago

If only any of them made good EVs... Or even better weren't trading one ecological disaster for another.

themitigating 4y ago
Which is less of a disaster? That's all that matters and you making it a binary situation is overly simplistic and likely done on purpose due to your political beliefs