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So, the nice guy you're talking about had job pay increases exceeding inflation at each 3 jobs over 20 years? OK. The second person sounds insufferable, but y

So, the nice guy you're talking about had job pay increases exceeding inflation at each 3 jobs over 20 years? OK. The second person sounds insufferable, but you're also indirectly preaching the praises of corporate loyalty that have been outdated and out of touch for over 50 years.

taylodl 4y ago
It's not about corporate loyalty - it's about passion to do good work without blaming others (colleagues, tech stack, corporate environment) for why you suck. Look, I've been creating software for 40 years now in a wide variety of industries and many, many tech stacks. The people passionate about doing good work simply do good work. That other guy? He's all bluster. They eventually wash out. Nowadays their strategy is to get hired at a FAANG and have earned enough to retire by the time they wash out. It's really pathetic and frankly I say good riddance to those people. I've seen many of them come and go over the years and the team is almost as better off after they leave. Meanwhile, if you're solving real problems real people are having and they're willing to pay for them to be solved then you'll remain employed.
- zmxz 4y ago
  > It's not about corporate loyalty - it's about passion to do good work without blaming others (colleagues, tech stack, corporate environment) for why you suck. This. I noticed many people talking about corporate loyalty, but you sir made my day, this was precisely my point :) I wrote a wall of text trying to explain what you explained in that one simple sentence, your experience is visible. Thank you and have a great day!
- andrewmcwatters 4y ago
  You could have just said that. It distracts from your message. I've worked at too many companies where hack job losers stuck around 5, 10, 15 years, insulating themselves with low enough pay and job security by not sticking out, keeping their head down, and creating an environment that breeds passive leeches. These lifers would create enough mess that would eventually be cleaned up by people who could read a man page instead of a Medium article and who eventually left for greener pastures because they too were interested in creating good work. You can be technically excellent and have enough brains to pay attention to the CPI-W. Records profits from corporates aren't for you and me, they're for the businesses themselves.
  - taylodl 4y ago
    You're right - that is the other end of the spectrum. Those people make enough messes to guarantee continual employment - or so they think. Then they get RIF'd and they're screwed because their skills are obsolete. I've never understood those people either.
ghaff 4y ago
I've had 4 jobs (one a short-lived one cut short by dot-bomb) over the past almost 40 years. I've done fine starting at a time when tech industry salaries were a far cry from where they are now.
zmxz 4y ago
> you're also indirectly preaching the praises of corporate loyalty I didn't preach that, I purposely left out where the first one works and what the industry is. In all honesty, you have to admit you filled out that part yourself so you can have something to argue about :) No, it's not about corporate loyalty at all but I don't have any means to dissuade you so you'll just have to trust me on this (or don't). You purposely skipped the part where one person is honest and good at what they do while the other is the opposite. > the nice guy you're talking about had job pay increases exceeding inflation at each 3 jobs over 20 years The smart guy did not rely only on pay increases, you're thinking too small about financial compensation. Salary is not the only source of compensation. There are other, better financial models to keep the expert employee and to grow alongside said expert and to keep every party happy. Win for engineer, win for employer and win for customer _is_ a possible scenario.
- andrewmcwatters 4y ago
  > and never failed to mention it in social gatherings as if it's something to be proud of. No, you did. You shouldn't be proud of sticking around at a company you have no plans of being a leader at or having meaningful equity. It makes you sound like an idiot. Who can't multiply 2% inflation by the number of years someone has been at a company and do a little math? For as insufferable as this person sounds, they should be proud of not letting businesses screw them over. Don't tell me I'm thinking "too small about financial compensation" when people literally cannot afford homes. This boomer stuff has to go. You think these gen Z kids care? They're even smarter than millennials. They learned "FYPM" from the get go.
  - zmxz 4y ago
    Thank you for the polite insults. I hope you feel good after this wonderful display towards a stranger online. The education you provided is invaluable. Your moral compass is high and you defeated me and defended an entire generation of people. I think this is the first of its kind in the history of internet, you must feel like a hero :) Sadly, you didn't read what I wrote but I'm still grateful for being called an idiot, and since I value your opinion I am gravely hurt.

taylodl 4y ago

It's not about corporate loyalty - it's about passion to do good work without blaming others (colleagues, tech stack, corporate environment) for why you suck. Look, I've been creating software for 40 years now in a wide variety of industries and many, many tech stacks. The people passionate about doing good work simply do good work. That other guy? He's all bluster. They eventually wash out. Nowadays their strategy is to get hired at a FAANG and have earned enough to retire by the time they wash out. It's really pathetic and frankly I say good riddance to those people. I've seen many of them come and go over the years and the team is almost as better off after they leave. Meanwhile, if you're solving real problems real people are having and they're willing to pay for them to be solved then you'll remain employed.

zmxz 4y ago
> It's not about corporate loyalty - it's about passion to do good work without blaming others (colleagues, tech stack, corporate environment) for why you suck. This. I noticed many people talking about corporate loyalty, but you sir made my day, this was precisely my point :) I wrote a wall of text trying to explain what you explained in that one simple sentence, your experience is visible. Thank you and have a great day!
andrewmcwatters 4y ago
You could have just said that. It distracts from your message. I've worked at too many companies where hack job losers stuck around 5, 10, 15 years, insulating themselves with low enough pay and job security by not sticking out, keeping their head down, and creating an environment that breeds passive leeches. These lifers would create enough mess that would eventually be cleaned up by people who could read a man page instead of a Medium article and who eventually left for greener pastures because they too were interested in creating good work. You can be technically excellent and have enough brains to pay attention to the CPI-W. Records profits from corporates aren't for you and me, they're for the businesses themselves.
- taylodl 4y ago
  You're right - that is the other end of the spectrum. Those people make enough messes to guarantee continual employment - or so they think. Then they get RIF'd and they're screwed because their skills are obsolete. I've never understood those people either.

ghaff 4y ago

I've had 4 jobs (one a short-lived one cut short by dot-bomb) over the past almost 40 years. I've done fine starting at a time when tech industry salaries were a far cry from where they are now.

zmxz 4y ago

> you're also indirectly preaching the praises of corporate loyalty I didn't preach that, I purposely left out where the first one works and what the industry is. In all honesty, you have to admit you filled out that part yourself so you can have something to argue about :) No, it's not about corporate loyalty at all but I don't have any means to dissuade you so you'll just have to trust me on this (or don't). You purposely skipped the part where one person is honest and good at what they do while the other is the opposite. > the nice guy you're talking about had job pay increases exceeding inflation at each 3 jobs over 20 years The smart guy did not rely only on pay increases, you're thinking too small about financial compensation. Salary is not the only source of compensation. There are other, better financial models to keep the expert employee and to grow alongside said expert and to keep every party happy. Win for engineer, win for employer and win for customer _is_ a possible scenario.

andrewmcwatters 4y ago
> and never failed to mention it in social gatherings as if it's something to be proud of. No, you did. You shouldn't be proud of sticking around at a company you have no plans of being a leader at or having meaningful equity. It makes you sound like an idiot. Who can't multiply 2% inflation by the number of years someone has been at a company and do a little math? For as insufferable as this person sounds, they should be proud of not letting businesses screw them over. Don't tell me I'm thinking "too small about financial compensation" when people literally cannot afford homes. This boomer stuff has to go. You think these gen Z kids care? They're even smarter than millennials. They learned "FYPM" from the get go.
- zmxz 4y ago
  Thank you for the polite insults. I hope you feel good after this wonderful display towards a stranger online. The education you provided is invaluable. Your moral compass is high and you defeated me and defended an entire generation of people. I think this is the first of its kind in the history of internet, you must feel like a hero :) Sadly, you didn't read what I wrote but I'm still grateful for being called an idiot, and since I value your opinion I am gravely hurt.