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Stop SOAP
- orblivion 15y agoI was thinking, Spanish people must be wondering, "what do all these nerds have against soup?".
- TobbenTM 15y agoAnd all english-speaking people must think, "what do all these nerds have against soap?".
- vijayr 15y agothese nerds - they rarely shower !!!
- narag 15y agoThis has circulated recently: http://www.en2palabras.com/f10/mafalda-nos-explica-que-es-la-ley-s-o-p-y-como-nos-afecta-todos-12137.html http://www.en2palabras.com/f10/mafalda-nos-explica-que-es-la... Mirror: http://www.taringa.net/posts/info/13583646/Mafalda-nos-explica-la-ley-SOPA.html http://www.taringa.net/posts/info/13583646/Mafalda-nos-expli...
- ArturoVM 15y agoYep, every time I ask a non-nerd what they think about SOPA, they answer "Why, it's delicious!".
- ghc 15y agoFinally a movement I can get behind!
- wladimir 15y agoWell in contrary to the SOPA people, the SOAP people aren't trying to forcibly push SOAP on all of us with laws and treaties. There's enough alternatives. Let them use SOAP :p
- markokocic 15y agoUnless you have to integrate with their "mission critical" SOAP based "enterprise solution".
- petenixey 15y agoI can't shake the association between your comment and the one calling to "please drop the soap"
- 4ad 15y agoRelated: The S stands for Simple, http://wanderingbarque.com/nonintersecting/2006/11/15/the-s-stands-for-simple http://wanderingbarque.com/nonintersecting/2006/11/15/the-s-... and Please drop the SOAP, http://thecoffman.com/2011/01/25/please-drop-the-soap http://thecoffman.com/2011/01/25/please-drop-the-soap .
- DomreiRoam 15y agoSOAP is no more the acronym of Simple Object Access Protocol since version 1.2
- 4ad 15y agoThat's no excuse (and if you read the article you'd know that it acknowledges this fact).
- DomreiRoam 15y agoAgreed, When i started SOAP around 2000, it was very simple. After that we for more into the awful WSDL 1 (WSDL 2 is better). But the number of WS-* and the different implementations that are all incompatible is just a nightmare.
- baudehlo 15y agoIn 2001 I gave a talk (I believe at OSCon, to a packed audience) titled "Why SOAP Sucks". I started with a print-out of all the specs required to implement SOAP fully (there were lots of incomplete implementations around at the time, but barely any complete ones). It was more than two reams of paper (around 1100 pages of spec, if I recall). It had quite an "impact".
- bch 15y agoIIRC, the Table of Contents for the SOAP spec is bigger than the entire XML-RPC spec, yet SOAP offers little practical advantage. Luckily many new RPC implementations bypass both SOAP and XML-RPC and are looking to REST. $deity help all of us who need to work with legacy SOAP, however...
- kingofspain 15y agoAs someone who recently had to deal with a system with two different (incompatible) SOAP services, I fully endorse the message behind this site. Luckily my exposure seems to be restricted to legacy and enterprisey stuff nowadays.
- zerostar07 15y agoFinally, a legit movement for us non-americans!! How are we supposed to protest against this? cover our pages with bubbles?
- cgh 15y agoYou must stop bathing for one week and blog about the results.
- etaty 15y agoOne does not simply get some REST.
- simondlr 15y agoThere is a "REST in peace" joke there as well.
- seanalltogether 15y agoI'll admit to being completely ignorant about the benefits of using SOAP to communicate between servers. However I can say that for server->client communication it is the worse data representation I've ever had to work with and I genuinely hope we see the end of it. JSON maybe not be perfect, but it's so much better at delivering a structured data model then xml is.
- smacktlk 15y agoYou seem to be confused between SOAP and Restful XML Web Services? They are different...
- electrichead 15y agoYou don't think you can replace one with the other?
- nirvdrum 15y agoI think I'd like JSON as a data representation a lot more if schemas for it were more prevalent. I've noticed it's a lot harder to generate valid JSON -- or rather a lot harder to escape data. With XML, this is fairly trivial. Granted, my use case is considerably different from most. The other idea from SOAP I'd love to see applied to ReST is a descriptor document for the API. Given how poorly many ReST APIs are documented, I do miss the good 'ol WSDL. Plus, it gave me some measure of security that the API didn't change.
- harrisreynolds 15y agoUnfortunately I spent a couple years building web services tools in 2002,3. I have long since repented. Love the "S stands for Simple" link... fantastic dialog!
- aangjie 15y agoAlmost thought it was SOPA.. misspelled article..:-P Agree.. SOAP is way to verbose....and annoying to read manually while debugging...
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- jburwell 15y agoFriends don't let friends do SOAP.
- yock 15y agoSomeone went searching for "Stop SOPA" and discovered something brilliant from their typo.
- onedewd 15y agoSo much efforts to stop law proposal X. Which is great. What about the idea of a Open-USA or other Open-Iran where a true Meta-Democracy or whatever open society model is implemented where all efforts would be PRO something instead of hateful stuff like protesting. This laws are proposed by lobbies that go against the interest of 99% of the persons. How is that even conceivable ? All this big companies opposing could create a github project for open government and then elect a person that implements that.
- pedrosanta 15y agolawl
- Kesty 15y agoWe should use SOPA againt SOAP and ask internet providers acroos the globe to block access to every server that runs a SOAP webservice.
- tomelders 15y agoI am not Barrack Obama, and I endorse this message.
- yuvalo 15y agooh i see what you did there *sorry, reddit is down
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- mike-cardwell 15y agoIt helps if you click the article link and understand the content, before commenting.
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- binarray2000 15y ago..."Don worked with Microsoft and Dave Winer to create the original SOAP specification in 1998.": http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/de/Box/default.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/de/Box/default.mspx Actually, swell guy. I'm still wondering how he created such a mess.
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- mmaunder 15y agoMore tragic than HN becoming an advocacy site (the beginning of Slashdot's demise) is how many comments here don't get the joke.
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- simias 15y agoI agree. Sure discussions about SOPA have their place here, but lately it just felt like a bit echo chamber where you have the same people preaching to the choir using the same arguments over and over again. If I look at the homepage right now it seems half the posts are "site XXX blacked out to protest SOPA". Do all those need a separate story? The redditization of HN is running wild. Will september ever end?
- TylerE 15y agoIndeed. Another irony, the Cheezburger Network sites are using a pop-up complaining about SOPA, when arguably they are just the sort of site there is a legitimate complaint about, as they routinely rip off other people's comments, and bask in the ad revenue.
- levesque 15y agoSince when is being a web programmer a prerequisite to participating on HN?
- simias 15y agoI think what the OP meant is that this story is meant as a parody of the avalanche of "sopa is evil" posts lately. Whether you know what SOAP is or not is beyond the point.
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- tar 15y agoREST in peace, SOAP.
- abailin 15y agoThis is great - put on some tweet/fb like/+1 buttons so we can help spread the word.
- pvarangot 15y agoI'm against Stop SOAP. SOAP is a jobs-protocol. In the current economy, consultants specialized in fixing convoluted web applications need us more than ever.
- T_S_ 15y agoI agree. We need SOAP to stop the JSON loving bit thieves trying to steal our intellectual overhead (IO). Don't drop the SOAP!
- umjames 15y agoAs someone who is about to work with a client's enterprisey SOAP API, I really wish I could upvote this article multiple times.
- AznHisoka 15y agoIs there even 1 legit reason why someone would use SOAP over REST, aside from legacy?
- mindcrime 15y agohttp://www.infoq.com/articles/rest-soap-when-to-use-each http://www.infoq.com/articles/rest-soap-when-to-use-each
- i2pi 15y agoHi - I'm Josh - the guy behind Stop SOAP. There is no political intent behind this site. It is meant to be a joke. A joke with a grain of truth. Backstory: I was waiting for a conference call, saw that stopsoap wasn't registered and put this together in 15min. Deeper backstory: I'm the co-founder & CEO of Simple.com. We deal with many SOAP APIs. The upside is that SOAP provides very clear specifications as to how the API is supposed to work. The downside, is that things rarely work as expected. It is frustrating, but such is life in banking. On a more serious note, We're Hiring. If you'd like to work at Simple, where we replace you bank & give you clean REST APIs to your finances, check us out: http://simple.com http://simple.com
- zerostar07 15y agoWell, you may soon be the accidental hero who saved the world from slippery things.
- Achshar 15y agoAlright guys.. i'll admit, i dont get the joke. can any one explain? What's happening on that site and why do i see xml? (yes, i am still learning new stuff, like everyone else)
- chrisbolt 15y agohttp://www.w3.org/TR/2000/NOTE-SOAP-20000508/ http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/NOTE-SOAP-20000508/
- Achshar 15y agoOh, i see, so it is some kind of communication protocol. But i am surprised i never heard of it even thought i have been writing/learning code for a few years now.
- RyanMcGreal 15y agoSOAP is a specification for exposing remote procedure calls via a web service. The client executes a SOAP request by making an HTTP Post request against a URL with an XML request body that specifies what remote procedure to call and what parameters to pass into it. The service, in turn, sends an HTTP response with an XML body that contains the return value from the procedure call. SOAP services also usually include a WSDL, which is alternately said to stand for Web Service Definition List, Web Service Definition Language, or Web Service Description Language and is meant to define the methods and parameters available to the client. Because the whole system is so complicated, cumbersome and over-engineered, the normal way to create a WSDL is to do it automatically using tooling. Unfortunately, different frameworks generate different and often mutually incompatible and non-interoperable WSDLs. So, for example, a .NET SOAP client might not be able to consume a WSDL generated by a Java framework. The S in SOAP originally stood for "Simple", but the protocol is anything but.
- Achshar 15y agoYes that comment really helps but if i am getting it right, it is something like JSON, right? like JSON is used in public API's and all sorts of server-client communication. Any particular reason to take SOAP against something like JSON?
- xbryanx 15y agoHave you considered Dr Bronner's? - http://www.drbronner.com/pdf/drbronner_32oz_Pep.pdf http://www.drbronner.com/pdf/drbronner_32oz_Pep.pdf
- llambda 15y agoI'm wondering how it's technically possible for a submission with over 500 up-votes to be flagged to the point of being pushed off the front page; interestingly, it was not a gradual departure, as you'd expect, but rather it seemed to move instantly, from the top spot, to number 33 or 34, on the second page. I think it's terribly important that it be possible for the community to reflect, critically: SOPA is a serious issue, one we should all be concerned about, and more importantly taking action against. However, there is a point where it becomes an echo chamber, where we are preaching to the choir. Having nearly every submission be yet another "X is blacked out" does not necessarily correlate to communicating to our lawmakers that we do not want this legislation to pass. Clearly this subtle, yet provocative submission's intent to communicate such a critique was understood by a number of people. I'm still unsure how it ended up bumped so quickly, but whatever the case, I hope the point wasn't entirely lost on those of you who didn't appreciate it.
- mike-cardwell 15y agoI suspect the absolutely dismal state of the comments helped to get it flagged into oblivion.