4 ms·

It makes me angry that this even got into the news. Getting into Oxford is a difficult process and not many make it. Those that do have been selected based on

It makes me angry that this even got into the news. Getting into Oxford is a difficult process and not many make it. Those that do have been selected based on merit, obviously she did not meet what the admissions tutors were looking for. It's childish that she replied with such a letter to be honest, she just sounds like a spoiled child throwing her toys out of the pram.

ec429 15y ago
I quite agree (and it's sickening how 'elitism' has become an insult). However, I would add that she does have a point about Oxford not being up to scratch (she should have applied to Cambridge instead ;)
amirmc 15y ago
I thought the last quote was a little odd. "Being a successful student should depend on the student, not on whether or not a couple of academics have deemed you to shine in a twenty minute interview." I'm not sure what system she would propose instead. Edit: Seems a few people don't like the above comment. The application process anywhere will take into account grades, supporting statements, references etc. Not everywhere will do interviews but for those that do, it'll (presumably) be an additional point in all of this.
- test624 15y ago
  In many countries university admissions depend only on test scores. The only exception are the winners of nationwide competitions, who can enter any university they choose.
  - swombat 15y ago
    That's a system that Oxford explicitly rejects. They even give a test for science candidates, and then don't really care about the results (they're just there to check that you're not completely ignorant). Oxford selects for potential, not for test results. How do they judge that potential? Well, they have developed detectors which are really advanced, carefully calibrated, extremely sensitive and incredibly difficult to game. Those detectors come in the form of "professors" who have been teaching for 20+ years and know how to judge a student's potential from a 20 minute interview. Disclaimer: I went to Oxford.
    - mstevens 15y ago
      What evidence is there for the quality of these "detectors"?
      - swombat 15y ago
        The incredible quality of people that study there, and of the people that come out of it.
        mstevens 15y ago
        I'm just generally very suspicious of any "expert judges situation by magical intuition" story. I do generally have a good opinion of Oxbridge, despite the fact they turned me down :)
  - screwt 15y ago
    You need to take into account that test scores don't tell you enough. Currently roughly 8% get the top grade (A star) at A level, per subject [1]. I can't find a number for what %age of students achieve all-A star grades, but I expect it's still greater than the number who apply to Oxford or Cambridge. It's the job of the interview to distinguish between those who have the potential to go beyond what's needed for A levels. For the most part, if someone has had to work extremely hard to achieve the top A-level grades, they're going to struggle at Oxbridge where the level is that much higher. I'm not saying the current interview process is perfect, but test scores alone don't tell you enough to distinguish the best students. Disclaimer: I went to Cambridge. [1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11012369 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11012369 (edit: asterisk -> "star" to avoid italicising)

ec429 15y ago

I quite agree (and it's sickening how 'elitism' has become an insult). However, I would add that she does have a point about Oxford not being up to scratch (she should have applied to Cambridge instead ;)

amirmc 15y ago

I thought the last quote was a little odd. "Being a successful student should depend on the student, not on whether or not a couple of academics have deemed you to shine in a twenty minute interview." I'm not sure what system she would propose instead. Edit: Seems a few people don't like the above comment. The application process anywhere will take into account grades, supporting statements, references etc. Not everywhere will do interviews but for those that do, it'll (presumably) be an additional point in all of this.

test624 15y ago
In many countries university admissions depend only on test scores. The only exception are the winners of nationwide competitions, who can enter any university they choose.
- swombat 15y ago
  That's a system that Oxford explicitly rejects. They even give a test for science candidates, and then don't really care about the results (they're just there to check that you're not completely ignorant). Oxford selects for potential, not for test results. How do they judge that potential? Well, they have developed detectors which are really advanced, carefully calibrated, extremely sensitive and incredibly difficult to game. Those detectors come in the form of "professors" who have been teaching for 20+ years and know how to judge a student's potential from a 20 minute interview. Disclaimer: I went to Oxford.
  - mstevens 15y ago
    What evidence is there for the quality of these "detectors"?
    - swombat 15y ago
      The incredible quality of people that study there, and of the people that come out of it.
      - mstevens 15y ago
        I'm just generally very suspicious of any "expert judges situation by magical intuition" story. I do generally have a good opinion of Oxbridge, despite the fact they turned me down :)
- screwt 15y ago
  You need to take into account that test scores don't tell you enough. Currently roughly 8% get the top grade (A star) at A level, per subject [1]. I can't find a number for what %age of students achieve all-A star grades, but I expect it's still greater than the number who apply to Oxford or Cambridge. It's the job of the interview to distinguish between those who have the potential to go beyond what's needed for A levels. For the most part, if someone has had to work extremely hard to achieve the top A-level grades, they're going to struggle at Oxbridge where the level is that much higher. I'm not saying the current interview process is perfect, but test scores alone don't tell you enough to distinguish the best students. Disclaimer: I went to Cambridge. [1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11012369 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11012369 (edit: asterisk -> "star" to avoid italicising)