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Finally, what can these chemicals react into when in a blaze.

shadowgovt 4y ago
That's extremely well known, which is why the remediation strategy was to intentionally set them on fire.
kurthr 4y ago
There's a small amount of phosgene, but mostly nothing worse than when they started (which are fairly nasty). Lot's of CO and CO2, but it's the liquid runoff that's more concerning. It'll be a haz-waste site for decades.
- mcguire 4y ago
  And hydrogen chloride.
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  Vinyl chloride degrades in air 99% in 100 days and doesn't bio-accumulate. It'll be a source of 14-CO2 for about a year, tops.
  - kurthr 4y ago
    It's the stuff that's subsurface (ground water?) that'll last. Agree, that if it's exposed to air and sunlight it won't last long... too reactive.
    - shadowgovt 4y ago
      It doesn't appear vinyl chloride wants to stay in water, based on the numbers I'm seeing (https://semspub.epa.gov/work/05/437069.pdf https://semspub.epa.gov/work/05/437069.pdf). The instances of vinyl chloride contamination tend to be from an actively-producing source, like a plant with a leak. Spilled on the ground and absorbed into water, it should evaporate into gaseous form in a matter of hours.
Accujack 4y ago
I've researched this recently. Thermal decomposition of Vinyl Chloride Monomer forms HCl, CO, CO2, and trace phosgene. Thermal decomposition of literally all the other chemicals listed produces CO and CO2. It's likely that a certain number of animal deaths in the area have been caused by HCl being absorbed by water (in lungs) and forming acid, or CO/CO2 displacing oxygen and suffocating them. As far as I have found, none of the chemicals spilled is toxic to marine life. Dead fish could be coming from soot or other pollutants from the fire rather than from the chemicals.... hard to say. By the way, VCM has a half life of about 20 hours in the atmosphere.
- thesz 4y ago
  Thermal decomposition can be incomplete, and it appears to be the case. Also, thermal decomposition is different from burning. And HCl is already an acid, most probably you meant a water solution of HCl.

That's extremely well known, which is why the remediation strategy was to intentionally set them on fire.

There's a small amount of phosgene, but mostly nothing worse than when they started (which are fairly nasty). Lot's of CO and CO2, but it's the liquid runoff that's more concerning. It'll be a haz-waste site for decades.

mcguire 4y ago
And hydrogen chloride.
shadowgovt 4y ago
Vinyl chloride degrades in air 99% in 100 days and doesn't bio-accumulate. It'll be a source of 14-CO2 for about a year, tops.
- kurthr 4y ago
  It's the stuff that's subsurface (ground water?) that'll last. Agree, that if it's exposed to air and sunlight it won't last long... too reactive.
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    It doesn't appear vinyl chloride wants to stay in water, based on the numbers I'm seeing (https://semspub.epa.gov/work/05/437069.pdf https://semspub.epa.gov/work/05/437069.pdf). The instances of vinyl chloride contamination tend to be from an actively-producing source, like a plant with a leak. Spilled on the ground and absorbed into water, it should evaporate into gaseous form in a matter of hours.

Accujack 4y ago

I've researched this recently. Thermal decomposition of Vinyl Chloride Monomer forms HCl, CO, CO2, and trace phosgene. Thermal decomposition of literally all the other chemicals listed produces CO and CO2. It's likely that a certain number of animal deaths in the area have been caused by HCl being absorbed by water (in lungs) and forming acid, or CO/CO2 displacing oxygen and suffocating them. As far as I have found, none of the chemicals spilled is toxic to marine life. Dead fish could be coming from soot or other pollutants from the fire rather than from the chemicals.... hard to say. By the way, VCM has a half life of about 20 hours in the atmosphere.

thesz 4y ago
Thermal decomposition can be incomplete, and it appears to be the case. Also, thermal decomposition is different from burning. And HCl is already an acid, most probably you meant a water solution of HCl.