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https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/substances/vinyl-chloride https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/s... > Vinyl ch

by yebyen 4y ago

https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/substances/vinyl-chloride https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/s... > Vinyl chloride exposure is associated with an increased risk of a rare form of liver cancer (hepatic angiosarcoma), as well as primary liver cancer (hepatocellular carcinoma), brain and lung cancers, lymphoma, and leukemia. If there's some fact in the parent comment which is in dispute could you please be a bit more clear about what it is? This is a very unhelpful comment from you.

xadhominemx 4y ago
Don’t chide me. Parent comment is ridiculous and harmful fearmongering and hyperbole. Read your own link - there is no mention of carcinogenicity* from acute exposure and environmental a biological persistence is very low. I would be more concerned if I spent a career in a vinyl chloride production facility without proper ppe.
- shkkmo 4y ago
  There is no language in that link that limits the risks to long term exposure. If you follow the OSHA link on that page, you'll see that the ERPG-3 is 20000 ppm; that's the level at which some people will start facing lethal complications after an hour of exposure. If you're gonna argue that there are no consequences to acute exposure, you gonna have to provide some sources.
  - xadhominemx 4y ago
    20,000 ppm! Do you understand how high that is??
    - shkkmo 4y ago
      "The levels required for acute exposure risk ate very high" is factually quite different from "there is no risk from acute exposure." Additionally, an hour is also several orders of magnitude shorter than a week. I'm not saying that the residents are facing concerning exposure levels, however your attempts to dismiss that concern have been either incorrect or factually lacking. If you are trying to correct misinformation, you need to raise the bar.
      - xadhominemx 4y ago
        Parent comment referred to carcinogenicity.
        shkkmo 4y ago
        Yes, it is classified as a carncinogen. > Carcinogenic classifications: EPA-K;A, IARC-1, NIOSH-Ca, NTP-K, OSHA-Ca, TLV-A1
        xadhominemx 4y ago
        Not from acute exposure!
    - burnished 4y ago
      High enough you could start using percentages!
- cycomanic 4y ago
  > Don’t chide me. Parent comment is ridiculous and harmful fearmongering and hyperbole. Read your own link - there is no mention of harm from acute exposure and environmental an biological persistence is very low. Reading the Wikipedia link it's not so clear if only continuous exposure elevates cancer risk. However it also lists significant acute effects: > Prior to 1974, workers were commonly exposed to 1,000 ppm vinyl chloride, causing "vinyl chloride illness" such as acroosteolysis and Raynaud's Phenomenon. The symptoms of vinyl chloride exposure are classified by ppm levels in ambient air with 4,000 ppm having a threshold effect.[17] The intensity of symptoms varies from acute (1,000–8,000 ppm), including dizziness, nausea, visual disturbances, headache, and ataxia, to chronic (above 12,000 ppm), including narcotic effect, cardiac arrhythmias, and fatal respiratory failure.[18] RADS (Reactive Airway Dysfunction Syndrome) may be caused by acute exposure to vinyl chloride.[19] So I'm not sure if the previous post was harmful fearmongering.
  - xadhominemx 4y ago
    There were no severe acute effects - there were no hospitalizations, the vast majority of the vinyl chloride was intentionally burned, and the little that remains has very low environmental or biological persistence.
    - shadowgovt 4y ago
      As is so often the case, people who fearmonger about what could happen fail to notice that the medical establishment keeps quite good records on what is happening. We'd know about the acute effects by now from hospitalization, and we generally know about the chronic effects in the environment because this isn't even the first vinyl chloride spill. Is Paulsboro, NJ currently a cancer hotbed? https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a8519/nj-train-accident-spills-vinyl-chloride-14801966/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a8519/n...
      - xadhominemx 4y ago
        Exactly! Vinyl Chloride is an extremely common and high volume industrial use chemical. If acute exposure could give you cancer, we’d have known decades ago.
- yebyen 4y ago
  I wasn't chiding you, I am a layman and I genuinely had no idea what issue you saw in the parent comment. Read your own comment that I responded to again. The parent comment had multiple assertions in it, so there's literally no way for me to know what you meant by "no it's not" until you told me.

by yebyen 4y ago

xadhominemx 4y ago

Don’t chide me. Parent comment is ridiculous and harmful fearmongering and hyperbole. Read your own link - there is no mention of carcinogenicity* from acute exposure and environmental a biological persistence is very low. I would be more concerned if I spent a career in a vinyl chloride production facility without proper ppe.

shkkmo 4y ago
There is no language in that link that limits the risks to long term exposure. If you follow the OSHA link on that page, you'll see that the ERPG-3 is 20000 ppm; that's the level at which some people will start facing lethal complications after an hour of exposure. If you're gonna argue that there are no consequences to acute exposure, you gonna have to provide some sources.
- xadhominemx 4y ago
  20,000 ppm! Do you understand how high that is??
  - shkkmo 4y ago
    "The levels required for acute exposure risk ate very high" is factually quite different from "there is no risk from acute exposure." Additionally, an hour is also several orders of magnitude shorter than a week. I'm not saying that the residents are facing concerning exposure levels, however your attempts to dismiss that concern have been either incorrect or factually lacking. If you are trying to correct misinformation, you need to raise the bar.
    - xadhominemx 4y ago
      Parent comment referred to carcinogenicity.
      - shkkmo 4y ago
        Yes, it is classified as a carncinogen. > Carcinogenic classifications: EPA-K;A, IARC-1, NIOSH-Ca, NTP-K, OSHA-Ca, TLV-A1
        xadhominemx 4y ago
        Not from acute exposure!
  - burnished 4y ago
    High enough you could start using percentages!
cycomanic 4y ago
> Don’t chide me. Parent comment is ridiculous and harmful fearmongering and hyperbole. Read your own link - there is no mention of harm from acute exposure and environmental an biological persistence is very low. Reading the Wikipedia link it's not so clear if only continuous exposure elevates cancer risk. However it also lists significant acute effects: > Prior to 1974, workers were commonly exposed to 1,000 ppm vinyl chloride, causing "vinyl chloride illness" such as acroosteolysis and Raynaud's Phenomenon. The symptoms of vinyl chloride exposure are classified by ppm levels in ambient air with 4,000 ppm having a threshold effect.[17] The intensity of symptoms varies from acute (1,000–8,000 ppm), including dizziness, nausea, visual disturbances, headache, and ataxia, to chronic (above 12,000 ppm), including narcotic effect, cardiac arrhythmias, and fatal respiratory failure.[18] RADS (Reactive Airway Dysfunction Syndrome) may be caused by acute exposure to vinyl chloride.[19] So I'm not sure if the previous post was harmful fearmongering.
- xadhominemx 4y ago
  There were no severe acute effects - there were no hospitalizations, the vast majority of the vinyl chloride was intentionally burned, and the little that remains has very low environmental or biological persistence.
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    As is so often the case, people who fearmonger about what could happen fail to notice that the medical establishment keeps quite good records on what is happening. We'd know about the acute effects by now from hospitalization, and we generally know about the chronic effects in the environment because this isn't even the first vinyl chloride spill. Is Paulsboro, NJ currently a cancer hotbed? https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a8519/nj-train-accident-spills-vinyl-chloride-14801966/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a8519/n...
    - xadhominemx 4y ago
      Exactly! Vinyl Chloride is an extremely common and high volume industrial use chemical. If acute exposure could give you cancer, we’d have known decades ago.
yebyen 4y ago
I wasn't chiding you, I am a layman and I genuinely had no idea what issue you saw in the parent comment. Read your own comment that I responded to again. The parent comment had multiple assertions in it, so there's literally no way for me to know what you meant by "no it's not" until you told me.