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> The obligatory LGBTQ nonsense, “Rust has more trans and queer coders” is so tiring. Is there some 4chan-esque programming language that actually discourages

> The obligatory LGBTQ nonsense, “Rust has more trans and queer coders” is so tiring. Is there some 4chan-esque programming language that actually discourages queer people from using their language? In fact, is there any programming language forum that’s not friendly to “n00bs”. My guess is every language is friendly to “n00bs” in the forums and this doesn’t make Rust any more special than other languages (Note this has nothing to do with whether the language is actually easy to pick up, only whether people on forums are friendly to beginners) I assume you're posing a rhetorical question (implying that no languages are better or worse in this regard) rather than saying you actually want a language that's intentionally unfriendly to queer people. In that case: The relevant part in the article is quoting someone saying that because the Rust community adopted a code of conduct prohibiting harassment and took the attitude that no question is stupid it attracted more queer and trans coders and n00bs. Are you saying that you don't think it's possible that this type of code of conduct can make a forum more friendly? It doesn't seem that unreasonable (or some sort of outrage of wokeness run amock) to think that queer/trans coders are going to prefer a language where they know the community isn't going to harass them.

digdugdirk 4y ago
This needs to be emphasized. The internet wasn't wildly different when Rust was introduced, but it was a different time. Communities devoted to technical things (like programming languages) were harder to find, and generally felt smaller. On a cultural level, Me-Too and Trump did a lot to bring what OP labeled "obligatory LGBTQ nonsense" to the forefront. Before that, LGBTQ people did face a more casually open sense of hostility on a regular basis. There is a direct line between fostering an environment that is open to all sorts of marginalized groups, the people joining that environment being more inclined to help out with the core project, and the core project successfully growing a large user base.
rootusrootus 4y ago
> queer/trans coders are going to prefer a language where they know the community isn't going to harass them. What languages should they steer away from?
- Shared404 4y ago
  > What languages should they steer away from? In my experience, it's less that there's specific languages to avoid, and more that there's a general baseline of unpleasantness on the internet towards those folk. As a result, they tend to steer towards the islands where that doesn't occur.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    So the answer to the original question is ...?
    - Shared404 4y ago
      The point is that there's less of a repressive force from some areas and more of an attractive force to others. There isn't a list of "These are the problem languages", it's an experience of "Oh, this community has a CoC that protects me and has a culture I'm OK with".
      - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
        For example? I am capable of making assumptions by myself, I fail to see how these assumptions are relevant in the real World, where I never observed them except for single cases that are everywhere and happen more or less with the same frequency. I can't take an hypothetical as something that should convince me to use Rust because "some other community is worse in my fictional story"
        Shared404 4y ago
        The point isn't to convince you to use rust, it's to explain based on my experience why the phenomenon that's been observed occurred. I can say from my personal life that I have avoided or actively gone to stores based on similar perceptions, and tend to analyze the same information whenever joining a new online community.
- ostenning 4y ago
ClapperHeid 4y ago
>It doesn't seem that unreasonable .. to think that queer/trans coders are going to prefer a language where they know the community isn't going to harass them. I'm struggling to understand why interacting with an online programming community about aspects of a programming language requires you to announce your sexual preferences or gender identity? Or are BLTQPRs like vegans, in that respect?
- B8MGHCBekDuRi 4y ago
  because we are in post computer science times. personal identity > mental capabilities personal branding > collective growth physical traits > work ethics so it's funny to me that they are still called "communities" but everyone has its own strong individual identity and you have to respect it (meaning you need to aknowledge it) while talking about something completely different. It's like going to the gas station and instead of asking "how much" for the gas you start a conversation like "I am bald. Do you like bald people? Is this gas station aware of bald people existence? Do you recognize us as people? Do you stand by our side or not?" review "Did not speak my language. Not bald. Probably racist. Won't come again." Anyway: HCL is the fastest growing language on GitHub, faster than Rust and TypeScript https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33728996 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33728996

digdugdirk 4y ago

This needs to be emphasized. The internet wasn't wildly different when Rust was introduced, but it was a different time. Communities devoted to technical things (like programming languages) were harder to find, and generally felt smaller. On a cultural level, Me-Too and Trump did a lot to bring what OP labeled "obligatory LGBTQ nonsense" to the forefront. Before that, LGBTQ people did face a more casually open sense of hostility on a regular basis. There is a direct line between fostering an environment that is open to all sorts of marginalized groups, the people joining that environment being more inclined to help out with the core project, and the core project successfully growing a large user base.

rootusrootus 4y ago

> queer/trans coders are going to prefer a language where they know the community isn't going to harass them. What languages should they steer away from?

Shared404 4y ago
> What languages should they steer away from? In my experience, it's less that there's specific languages to avoid, and more that there's a general baseline of unpleasantness on the internet towards those folk. As a result, they tend to steer towards the islands where that doesn't occur.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  So the answer to the original question is ...?
  - Shared404 4y ago
    The point is that there's less of a repressive force from some areas and more of an attractive force to others. There isn't a list of "These are the problem languages", it's an experience of "Oh, this community has a CoC that protects me and has a culture I'm OK with".
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      For example? I am capable of making assumptions by myself, I fail to see how these assumptions are relevant in the real World, where I never observed them except for single cases that are everywhere and happen more or less with the same frequency. I can't take an hypothetical as something that should convince me to use Rust because "some other community is worse in my fictional story"
      - Shared404 4y ago
        The point isn't to convince you to use rust, it's to explain based on my experience why the phenomenon that's been observed occurred. I can say from my personal life that I have avoided or actively gone to stores based on similar perceptions, and tend to analyze the same information whenever joining a new online community.
ostenning 4y ago

ClapperHeid 4y ago

>It doesn't seem that unreasonable .. to think that queer/trans coders are going to prefer a language where they know the community isn't going to harass them. I'm struggling to understand why interacting with an online programming community about aspects of a programming language requires you to announce your sexual preferences or gender identity? Or are BLTQPRs like vegans, in that respect?

B8MGHCBekDuRi 4y ago
because we are in post computer science times. personal identity > mental capabilities personal branding > collective growth physical traits > work ethics so it's funny to me that they are still called "communities" but everyone has its own strong individual identity and you have to respect it (meaning you need to aknowledge it) while talking about something completely different. It's like going to the gas station and instead of asking "how much" for the gas you start a conversation like "I am bald. Do you like bald people? Is this gas station aware of bald people existence? Do you recognize us as people? Do you stand by our side or not?" review "Did not speak my language. Not bald. Probably racist. Won't come again." Anyway: HCL is the fastest growing language on GitHub, faster than Rust and TypeScript https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33728996 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33728996