4 ms·

Vendors of STBs should unlock them so that we don't get so much e-waste. These boxes are most of the times locked, whereas they could be repurposed for many in

Vendors of STBs should unlock them so that we don't get so much e-waste. These boxes are most of the times locked, whereas they could be repurposed for many interesting uses (linux machines, android boxes, educational devices...), now they will be thrown away, remain in closets/garages or at the best be recycled. Tried to unlock my Vodafone TV box (Sagemcom DIW387 if I'm not mistaken), but with no luck since there is no community to "hack" it.

larodi 4y ago
It must be a low. Like self unlock after 513 boots
anonuser123456 4y ago
We aren’t going to modify our security protocols so a handful of people can mod their STB, sorry :P
- NegativeK 4y ago
  Given how quickly support is dropped for consumer electronics, not opening up access to them is unacceptable. And that isn't really addressing the fact that many companies don't have the funding or the will to secure these devices.
  - Clamchop 4y ago
    I think the desire to repurpose obsolete electronic appliances is probably far too small to make a meaningful dent in e-waste. Not much to be done at scale with random, idiosyncratic, and underpowered SBCs. I don't know for sure but I do strongly suspect it.
  - BizarroLand 4y ago
    I mean, if nothing else when the device reaches EOL what would it hurt to release a bootloader unlock?
    - NotYourLawyer 4y ago
      “What would it hurt” is the wrong question. The question is “how would it profit them”? If it wouldn’t, they have zero incentive to do it.
      - BizarroLand 4y ago
        It would profit them by generating buzz and good will from their customers towards their future products, knowing that at some point, the customer will be given complete ownership of the product. Plus, if the parts of the underlying software that are not going to be reused without modification in future products were open sourced, then for most semi-successful products there is the possibility of the code base growing, new tools and utilities being created, and information being generated that would improve their future products. The only potential downside is that if the newer products that are released are retrogressive or are deemed to not be enough of an improvement then their own older systems with better software might crowd out their market share. This would be a dramatic blow to sales of products like iPhones which have not had any MAJOR hardware upgrades in a few years, but for SBCs, a new processor, additional cores, faster memory, stronger graphics cards, USB-C, there's dozens of small improvements each generation that make a newer version worthwhile to customers.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
        Perhaps the regulatory solution is to offer the option: Either the vendor covers the cost of recycling, or they liberate the devices so recycling isn't the only option.
    - anonuser123456 4y ago
      >would it hurt to release a bootloader unlock? In cases I am familiar with, you would need the sign off of 4 separate companies. I’m 99% certain one of them would outright refuse. I’m also 99% certain the others would be ambivalent and it would fall to the bottom of a bottomless queue.
- wolrah 4y ago
  > We aren’t going to modify our security protocols so a handful of people can mod their STB, sorry :P Don't try to pass off lockdown nonsense as "security". If your "security" depends on a locked down end user device it's a broken design from the start. I'd be willing to bet that the restrictions actually enforce the execution of insecure components, almost every locked down device ends up that way because the chain of vendors involved in approving updates doesn't really care about anything that doesn't affect their profit margins. Just admit it's all about the margins, don't lie about security.
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
What about game consoles?
mschuster91 4y ago
Most of the common STBs have piss poor performance because their specs are barely adequate as providers don't give a fuck about anything except BOM cost.
- avidiax 4y ago
  They are really excellent at decoding video, as you would expect. They can't run a 4k UI generally, however. I think it's holding the industry back somewhat. Having a bit more power might make these boxes a home hub, a video calling device, a gaming device, or at least a bit future-proof. One thing I like to do with Android TV devices is install tailscale on them. At least I can ADB to them from anywhere, and I can also setup the exit node. They use hardly any power, so it's a nice solution to have access to your home network or home internet connection.
vctrnk 4y ago
I won't hold my breath. From the article: > In theory, we might be asked to give this device back. In practice, these devices are written off as soon as they’re sent to customers. In my country, there are various ISPs with the same OEM boxes from SDMCtech. They went to the trouble of asking manufacturer to put a custom SDIO encryption chip onboard. If someone dares to touch the firmware and/or included apps (not system, but phone-home ones) the device automatically bricks forever. Not even a NAND change fixes this, as the SoC/cryptochip/NAND trio is somehow "mated" at factory. This derived in a literal invasion of these at flea markets, charity stores etc. Almost none of them work, and if they do they are thoroughly locked. Some people like me had limited success tweaking things through ADB. This box seems to accept a launcher change as long as the original isn't erased. That works until the box updates itself and bitches again about "pirating/unauthorized use", which is quite frequent. Our ISPs are well aware of said e-waste, and still won't budge their up-the-ass attitude.
- bigape911 4y ago
  Then when it's time to get rid of it, throw it back at their door step since it doesn't belong to you
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Actually many of those providers in some jurisdisions require returning the device at contract termination.
beebeepka 4y ago
Good luck with that. I just don't see Arris or Sagemcom opening up any time soon. These things are fairly locked down and drivers are tuned for specific things. I spent a few years dealing with some of these STBs and yeah, they make great little computers. Such a waste. Just like smartphones,

larodi 4y ago

It must be a low. Like self unlock after 513 boots

anonuser123456 4y ago

We aren’t going to modify our security protocols so a handful of people can mod their STB, sorry :P

NegativeK 4y ago
Given how quickly support is dropped for consumer electronics, not opening up access to them is unacceptable. And that isn't really addressing the fact that many companies don't have the funding or the will to secure these devices.
- Clamchop 4y ago
  I think the desire to repurpose obsolete electronic appliances is probably far too small to make a meaningful dent in e-waste. Not much to be done at scale with random, idiosyncratic, and underpowered SBCs. I don't know for sure but I do strongly suspect it.
- BizarroLand 4y ago
  I mean, if nothing else when the device reaches EOL what would it hurt to release a bootloader unlock?
  - NotYourLawyer 4y ago
    “What would it hurt” is the wrong question. The question is “how would it profit them”? If it wouldn’t, they have zero incentive to do it.
    - BizarroLand 4y ago
      It would profit them by generating buzz and good will from their customers towards their future products, knowing that at some point, the customer will be given complete ownership of the product. Plus, if the parts of the underlying software that are not going to be reused without modification in future products were open sourced, then for most semi-successful products there is the possibility of the code base growing, new tools and utilities being created, and information being generated that would improve their future products. The only potential downside is that if the newer products that are released are retrogressive or are deemed to not be enough of an improvement then their own older systems with better software might crowd out their market share. This would be a dramatic blow to sales of products like iPhones which have not had any MAJOR hardware upgrades in a few years, but for SBCs, a new processor, additional cores, faster memory, stronger graphics cards, USB-C, there's dozens of small improvements each generation that make a newer version worthwhile to customers.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
      Perhaps the regulatory solution is to offer the option: Either the vendor covers the cost of recycling, or they liberate the devices so recycling isn't the only option.
  - anonuser123456 4y ago
    >would it hurt to release a bootloader unlock? In cases I am familiar with, you would need the sign off of 4 separate companies. I’m 99% certain one of them would outright refuse. I’m also 99% certain the others would be ambivalent and it would fall to the bottom of a bottomless queue.
wolrah 4y ago
> We aren’t going to modify our security protocols so a handful of people can mod their STB, sorry :P Don't try to pass off lockdown nonsense as "security". If your "security" depends on a locked down end user device it's a broken design from the start. I'd be willing to bet that the restrictions actually enforce the execution of insecure components, almost every locked down device ends up that way because the chain of vendors involved in approving updates doesn't really care about anything that doesn't affect their profit margins. Just admit it's all about the margins, don't lie about security.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

What about game consoles?

mschuster91 4y ago

Most of the common STBs have piss poor performance because their specs are barely adequate as providers don't give a fuck about anything except BOM cost.

avidiax 4y ago
They are really excellent at decoding video, as you would expect. They can't run a 4k UI generally, however. I think it's holding the industry back somewhat. Having a bit more power might make these boxes a home hub, a video calling device, a gaming device, or at least a bit future-proof. One thing I like to do with Android TV devices is install tailscale on them. At least I can ADB to them from anywhere, and I can also setup the exit node. They use hardly any power, so it's a nice solution to have access to your home network or home internet connection.

vctrnk 4y ago

I won't hold my breath. From the article: > In theory, we might be asked to give this device back. In practice, these devices are written off as soon as they’re sent to customers. In my country, there are various ISPs with the same OEM boxes from SDMCtech. They went to the trouble of asking manufacturer to put a custom SDIO encryption chip onboard. If someone dares to touch the firmware and/or included apps (not system, but phone-home ones) the device automatically bricks forever. Not even a NAND change fixes this, as the SoC/cryptochip/NAND trio is somehow "mated" at factory. This derived in a literal invasion of these at flea markets, charity stores etc. Almost none of them work, and if they do they are thoroughly locked. Some people like me had limited success tweaking things through ADB. This box seems to accept a launcher change as long as the original isn't erased. That works until the box updates itself and bitches again about "pirating/unauthorized use", which is quite frequent. Our ISPs are well aware of said e-waste, and still won't budge their up-the-ass attitude.

bigape911 4y ago
Then when it's time to get rid of it, throw it back at their door step since it doesn't belong to you
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Actually many of those providers in some jurisdisions require returning the device at contract termination.

beebeepka 4y ago

Good luck with that. I just don't see Arris or Sagemcom opening up any time soon. These things are fairly locked down and drivers are tuned for specific things. I spent a few years dealing with some of these STBs and yeah, they make great little computers. Such a waste. Just like smartphones,