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In all seriousness, working on projects like this should be a Mark of Death in the tech community. Programmers, VCs, anyone who actually gives a shit should out
by yunwal 4y ago
In all seriousness, working on projects like this should be a Mark of Death in the tech community. Programmers, VCs, anyone who actually gives a shit should outright refuse to work with people who make things like this.
- rcme 4y agoWhy? Surely you understand that your entire existence is predicated on being protected by a sovereign nation that prevents others from murdering you and stealing your stuff.
- georgeg23 4y agoWorld is too small for this mindset anymore. Isolationism is no longer possible.
- yunwal 4y agoAh and that means we have to build the death robot. Right. I'd personally prefer we take the disarmament approach, but there's no money in that I guess.
- rcme 4y agoI agree that peace would be ideal, but that's not how things have played out historically. The pattern thus far in human history has been: 1) Group of people gain a technological advantage 2) Said group of people use the technological advantage to kill or subjugate others. The right strategy is probably to hope for the best and plan for the worst.
- yunwal 4y agoThere's really only been 2 technological advances in weaponry that could possibly be an existential threat to humanity (nukes being the other, and existential threat to humanity is perhaps an exaggeration there). I don't think these require the same approach as non-world-destroying weapons where "speak softly and carry a big stick" can work. Existential threats require real diplomacy. Not just, oh let's give the weapons to the "good guys". The only way to stop this is for technologists to decide that we don't want this thing to exist. Virologists are trying the same approach with gain-of-function research, and it has mostly worked. Yes, it requires sanctions, and politics, and some people will attempt to circumvent laws and safeguards in thirst for power. Those people must be stopped.
- YurgenJurgensen 4y agoLike how sanctions and politics prevented Russia's invasion of Ukraine?
- yunwal 4y agoThis is not really the dunk you think it is. Light consensus among foreign policy experts is that sanctions are working[0][1]. Meanwhile our wars in the Middle East have not brought about world peace. [0] - https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/sanctions-russia-are-working https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/sanctions-... [1] - https://www.npr.org/2022/12/27/1144226139/russia-sanctions-ukraine-war https://www.npr.org/2022/12/27/1144226139/russia-sanctions-u...
- YurgenJurgensen 4y agoThat's moving the goalposts. In a world with 'existential threat' (your words, not mine) weapons, making war inconvenient and take longer isn't enough, because one war ends everything. Sanctions and politics has to stop every war with 100% efficacy because the weapons in question cannot be matched. The fact that an invasion happened at all proves you wrong.
- figassis 4y agoWe have lots of valid arguments for everything...but where do we think this is going to end? All living peacefully with AI as the ultimate deterrent? Nukes had to be used to become a deterrent. Now we have something no one can claim to be able to control...still let's keep on marching.
- seydor 4y agoOr the opposite. War is already tech. The nuclear powers, and the ones controlling nukes control the world's fundamentals, with sideshows going on. When it comes to the ones who control the AI that will guide the nukes , who do we trust less, technologists or populist politicians? It is clear that in the future, weapons of manipulation will be just as powerful as thermonuclears, both superhuman and impossible to fight.
- yunwal 4y ago> who do we trust less, technologists or populist politicians? Neither. Luckily you only have to stop the technologists, since politicians are all technologically illiterate.
- Hayvok 4y agoThere’s a list of people I won’t work with alright- a list of people who throw down sweeping ultimatums and try to control others behavior and speech through fear. No thank you.
- yunwal 4y agoCool, I'll add you to the list :) > try to control others behavior Ah yes, speech is what controls other's behavior, not violence!
- l33t233372 4y agoGrandparent post explicitly said control behavior and speech through fear, not through speech:
- yunwal 4y agoWell, fear can be applied through speech or through violence. I prefer speech. People should be fearful about trying to develop autonomous weapons. There's nothing out there that says "I'm allowed to kill everyone in the world without ever feeling fear".
- Hayvok 4y ago> a Mark of Death in the tech community... refuse to work with people You called for individuals who work in this space to be ostracized, boycotted, blacklisted, etc. You're hoping that people will read your comment and then panic at the thought of taking one of these jobs, for fear of being discriminated against further down the road the next time they look for employment. This is you trying to control behavior through fear.
- yunwal 4y agoCool, yes, you should be afraid when you go around making autonomous weapons. The rest of the world is. Not sure why anyone working on weapons of mass destruction would feel the right to be immune from fear.
- georgeg23 4y agoEngineers ultimately decide our future. Stay informed!