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Here is the USDOT press release from 2017 on this: https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/news/usdot-announces-intent-repeal-electronically-controlled-pneumatic-brake-mandat

by takoid 4y ago

Here is the USDOT press release from 2017 on this: https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/news/usdot-announces-intent-repeal-electronically-controlled-pneumatic-brake-mandate https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/news/usdot-announces-intent-repeal... Can anyone speak to whether these electronically controlled pneumatic brakes would have prevented or lessened the severity of this derailment in Ohio?

falcolas 4y ago
The cause was an overheated wheel bearing melting and dislodging the axle, causing a derailment. The overheating was detected, and ignored. The quote is, as I recall, "The next sensor will detect it if it's a problem." Could the electric brakes have helped? Not sure in this specific case. In other cases? Probably. Air brakes are remarkably cool technology (how the valves work still boggles me from time to time) but they are still, in the end, civil war era technology that's probably due for an upgrade.
- aednichols 4y ago
  I am amused by how much remixing of facts is happening. On Reddit, I learned that the railroad was negligent for not replacing the rails since the Civil War.
  - wil421 4y ago
    That’s because the Anti-American bots and click farms are much more prevalent on Reddit. Not to mention I have a feeling a huge amount of active users are teens and repeat the same BS without checking.
- slantedview 4y ago
  There were more factors to this derailment than the ones you mention. In recent years train companies have forced longer trains than ever to be driven by a single worker, the sort of thing that would make it hard to notice a train car is on fire. They've also forced train car inspections, the sort of thing that might catch a faulty bearing, to be done faster than ever, in the push for endlessly increasing profits. The workers were raising these and other complaints last year, and our national leaders told them to take a hike, preventing them from striking.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    Yes, these definitely helped contribute to the derailment (and every derailment that occurs these days). But, IMO, ignoring the hot-axle warning they did get was unconscionable (and as I understand it, it wasn't the engineers who ignored it, it was dispatch).
  - aednichols 4y ago
    Noticing defects while underway has been automated by trackside detectors for decades, ever since the removal of the caboose and associated crewman. In this case, we know the detector went off as designed, and what happened - or did not happen - next was the problem.
downvotetruth 4y ago
The concerning concept is that dragging an axle is going to cause a significant additional load on the engine given it was not on a slope (no load shift) that should have made the engineer to stop and ask what is being dragged regardless of other technical aids rather than "let's try to drag it for a few more miles and see if it gets knocked loose to make rate".
- lstodd 4y ago
  A single axle in a train of several hundred, over continuously changing slope, rail and weather conditions? It most certainly won't be detected until it derails.
aednichols 4y ago
We do know that the crew was notified of the hot axle by an automatic defect detector. I don't think we know yet what their reaction was. If they didn't brake... then the brake technology had no effect. If they did brake, more sophisticated brake control systems could definitely stop it faster, and would reduce internal stresses that can could contribute to derailment. My personal speculation is that the crew tried to gamble and get the train to a more convenient stopping location, either of their own volition or as directed by dispatch.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

by takoid 4y ago

falcolas 4y ago

The cause was an overheated wheel bearing melting and dislodging the axle, causing a derailment. The overheating was detected, and ignored. The quote is, as I recall, "The next sensor will detect it if it's a problem." Could the electric brakes have helped? Not sure in this specific case. In other cases? Probably. Air brakes are remarkably cool technology (how the valves work still boggles me from time to time) but they are still, in the end, civil war era technology that's probably due for an upgrade.

aednichols 4y ago
I am amused by how much remixing of facts is happening. On Reddit, I learned that the railroad was negligent for not replacing the rails since the Civil War.
- wil421 4y ago
  That’s because the Anti-American bots and click farms are much more prevalent on Reddit. Not to mention I have a feeling a huge amount of active users are teens and repeat the same BS without checking.
slantedview 4y ago
There were more factors to this derailment than the ones you mention. In recent years train companies have forced longer trains than ever to be driven by a single worker, the sort of thing that would make it hard to notice a train car is on fire. They've also forced train car inspections, the sort of thing that might catch a faulty bearing, to be done faster than ever, in the push for endlessly increasing profits. The workers were raising these and other complaints last year, and our national leaders told them to take a hike, preventing them from striking.
- falcolas 4y ago
  Yes, these definitely helped contribute to the derailment (and every derailment that occurs these days). But, IMO, ignoring the hot-axle warning they did get was unconscionable (and as I understand it, it wasn't the engineers who ignored it, it was dispatch).
- aednichols 4y ago
  Noticing defects while underway has been automated by trackside detectors for decades, ever since the removal of the caboose and associated crewman. In this case, we know the detector went off as designed, and what happened - or did not happen - next was the problem.

downvotetruth 4y ago

The concerning concept is that dragging an axle is going to cause a significant additional load on the engine given it was not on a slope (no load shift) that should have made the engineer to stop and ask what is being dragged regardless of other technical aids rather than "let's try to drag it for a few more miles and see if it gets knocked loose to make rate".

lstodd 4y ago
A single axle in a train of several hundred, over continuously changing slope, rail and weather conditions? It most certainly won't be detected until it derails.

aednichols 4y ago

We do know that the crew was notified of the hot axle by an automatic defect detector. I don't think we know yet what their reaction was. If they didn't brake... then the brake technology had no effect. If they did brake, more sophisticated brake control systems could definitely stop it faster, and would reduce internal stresses that can could contribute to derailment. My personal speculation is that the crew tried to gamble and get the train to a more convenient stopping location, either of their own volition or as directed by dispatch.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]