7 ms·

This is such bullshit, I really wish I could downvote this sort of post. If you don't agree with the methods used by companies to sell their products DON'T the

This is such bullshit, I really wish I could downvote this sort of post. If you don't agree with the methods used by companies to sell their products DON'T then take it anyway, you're showing people WANT the product but aren't willing to pay, so what's the best solution? Make it harder to pirate / try to block pirating. This guy and everyone else who refuses to just not consume media they can't get on terms they and the companies agree with are the reason we have all this SOPA crap. If the latest Rihanna album is $10 and you're only willing to pay $1 instead of then pirating DON'T get it, just ignore it, if everyone did this we'd have no problems, then media companies would either adjust or accept that they're doing it wrong, they wouldn't then fight the internet. This guy and everyone else who follows the same point of view is essentially trying to blackmail media companies, how about instead you just move on. You have no right to the media they produce and if you're unhappy with what they want for it MOVE ON. If Sony want to sell the latest album from band x for $1,000 that's their choice, you have no right to that album.

omouse 15y ago
You have no right to the media they produce They have no right to force everyone else to conform to absurd rules made to preserve their profits.
- citricsquid 15y ago
  That's an entirely different issue and not a counter point to what I'm saying.
- VMG 15y ago
  Do they force you? Do you have to buy a Rihanna album?
  - ZeroGravitas 15y ago
    Some people would consider popular music to be part of their culture. It's much like asking if you have to buy Microsoft Office when it has such a hegemony. You can of course not buy it, but there is pressure to do so.
    - JumpCrisscross 15y ago
      That's a fuzzy line that invites far more chaos from over-zealous regulation than it does protect the user.
drewblaisdell 15y ago
When I started making enough money to buy everything I was consuming, I put an end to my piracy habit for some time. I had Netflix, used Rhapsody (then Spotify), bought season passes on iTunes (I used iPlayer a couple times but being in the US I had to use Tor to get around the region filter to watch a Louis Theroux documentaries, I guess that's "piracy"). I stopped when I realized that while I could afford it, all of these services were inferior to the ones I was used to. I will gladly pay for a product that is better than its free counterpart. I will even pay for a product that I could pirate, but I will not pay more to watch ads and listen to music on only a limited number of DRM-supported devices.
- tintin 15y ago
  When I started making enough money to buy a car I put an end to my car stealing habit for some time. See how silly this sounds? The problem with digital media is that it's very easy to copy. You can't just copy a car. There are tons of website offering free music. So just support those artists instead of the ones charging too much for an inferior service.
  - JumpCrisscross 15y ago
    "You can't just copy a car." Yup! And that's why comparing digital piracy with car theft is also equally silly. Note, I don't have a hard stance on this. Counterfeiting drugs, etc. is wrong for obvious reasons. Coming up with a similar argument for entertainment media is a bit less tenable. When the MPAA and RIAA cede the moral high ground by acting like idiots (suing 12-year olds, pushing for high criminal charges, SOPA/PIPA, etc.), it makes it more difficult to make a moral argument for the industry. The everything free argument is crap. But given that I pay for songs on iTunes but pirate TV shows because Derp Studios refuses to put it anywhere online, the user case is valid.
    - tintin 15y ago
      I was comparing the laws of theft. It's just the law that a copyright owner can ask whatever for it. When you obtain a copy without flowing this rule it is called theft. So I think the discussion should be about the copyright law. Not about "I think this service sucks so I will get an illegal copy". Don't get me wrong. I think it's absurd that you can get a penalty of $10.000 for downloading a MP3. I think the copyright rules should change. But I think it's silly to fight a law by disobeying it. It will give the MPAA good ground to say "see they are pirates".
patd 15y ago
I believe ploum still lives in France and in France when you buy a usb sticks, blank CDs and hard drives, you have to pay a "private copy tax" that can be in the tens of euros. So even if he ignores it, he is still paying them money because media companies can't adjust or accept that they're doing it wrong.
- tomp 15y ago
  So, does this tax then mean that I can pirate songs/movies? After all, I have already paid for them (through the tax). (Fiction, I know, but one can dream...)
  - hendrik-xdest 15y ago
    The concept is a bit different, at the moment. Creating copies of copyrighted material _could_ be possible with scanners, printers, CD and DVD burners ... The fee you pay on those and other devices is rather to pay for illegal copies that are created of copyrighted material you own. Not for creating hardcopies of illegally acquired content. At least that is what is supposed to do. In reality ... well you might want to learn German for that and read this interesting tidbit about the rights holder association of Germany (GEMA): hxxp://www.musiker-online.de/Newsdetails.newsdetails.0.html?&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=267&tx_ttnews[backPid]=10&cHash=226c5da554
    - tomp 15y ago
      Isn't it you fair use right to create copies of things you already own? E.g. for backup, or for your own music compilations, ...
      - ernesth 15y ago
        Duplicating CDs (or DVDs or books) for private use is indeed legal in France (even if the original comes from a library). The "taxe sur la copie privée" is intended to compensate for the fact that fewer copies are sold because of such private copy. It has nothing to do with piracy.
  - 15y ago
csomar 15y ago
This is such bullshit, I really wish I could downvote this sort of post. No. Upvote and explain why the author is wrong. We need to educate more people about piracy and intellectual property.
dorian-graph 15y ago
I agree with you so much. To this person and all the others you don't have some God given right to the content they produce/deliver. Instead of pirating go without. Will life stop if you don't watch the latest episode of Community? Probably. Give it a go. If you die I have dibs on your $2000 Macbook Pro, $800 iPhone, $250 Sennheiser headphones, etc. The very phrase 'Because you are messing with my life' in this context shows how much is wrong with the current culture. These companies are destroying civilisation? I've asked this question before: If I create a piece of software and ask you to not use it without purchasing it, will you do that? Very few people seem to be able to answer yes. The people who can't answer yes are those who are ruining civilisation. There is so much hyperbole in this article ("Messing with my life was not enough. You are even trying to destroy one of the pillar of our society: education.") I'm not quite sure if it's satirical or not, hah. Steve Jobs mentioned that in the end it comes down to the person knowing they've done something wrong after they've tried to rationalise their way out of it ("BUT IT'S NOT STEALING" or whatever the latest fad is). During high school I pirated a hell of a lot of software, videogames, music, movies—everything. I still bought more video games than most people will in their life times but that in no way balances what I pirated. I've stopped (All I have left is to make a list of the music I have and listen to in order to delete it all and slowly purchase it, which I've started doing). I either pay for something, borrow it or go without. The funny thing is, I don't like these big corporations either. I wish people would stop treating them as large, mythical and faceless entities but talk to the people behind the door. Until both sides come to understand each other and seek that communication they [we] will forever be at war. I don't support SOPA nor do I support blatant pirates.
- ThomPete 15y ago
  And the artists don't have a god given right to produce it once and sell it many times.
  - technoslut 15y ago
    Yes they do because they created it. As much as they have ownership over their music, you have the god given right not to buy it.
skrebbel 15y ago
> This is such bullshit, I really wish I could downvote this sort of post. Don't forget that people might upvote a post not because they agree, but because they're interested in the discussion that follows. At least, it's why I upvoted the post. I hadn't completely made up my mind and arguments like yours convinced me.
ThomPete 15y ago
This argument could obviously easily be reversed. If Rihanna and others don't want their music to be pirated they shouldn't make it digital. It is not a naturally given right you know to create an album once and then sell it in millions. It's an opportunity.
- jiggy2011 15y ago
  It's not a right to make millions it's a right to make... whatever you make. Rihanna could release her music on vinyl only but it would still be recorded and converted to an MP3 and up on torrents in a matter of hours, digital has nothing to do with it. The business model they would probably switch to in the case of no copyright would be to distribute a small amount of the music for free but if you want to hear the rest you have to attend a live concert where you would be searched for recording devices on entry. Would you prefer that model?
ul5255 15y ago
Good point. It is strange to read how people try to justify copying music/movies/... if they never had the intention to buy it in the first place. I do have sympathy for to circumvent DRM, ... e.g. to watch a DVD of region x (which I bought) on a player of region y. I don't have any sympathy for people who steal while I pay for the same thing.

omouse 15y ago

You have no right to the media they produce They have no right to force everyone else to conform to absurd rules made to preserve their profits.

citricsquid 15y ago
That's an entirely different issue and not a counter point to what I'm saying.
VMG 15y ago
Do they force you? Do you have to buy a Rihanna album?
- ZeroGravitas 15y ago
  Some people would consider popular music to be part of their culture. It's much like asking if you have to buy Microsoft Office when it has such a hegemony. You can of course not buy it, but there is pressure to do so.
  - JumpCrisscross 15y ago
    That's a fuzzy line that invites far more chaos from over-zealous regulation than it does protect the user.

drewblaisdell 15y ago

When I started making enough money to buy everything I was consuming, I put an end to my piracy habit for some time. I had Netflix, used Rhapsody (then Spotify), bought season passes on iTunes (I used iPlayer a couple times but being in the US I had to use Tor to get around the region filter to watch a Louis Theroux documentaries, I guess that's "piracy"). I stopped when I realized that while I could afford it, all of these services were inferior to the ones I was used to. I will gladly pay for a product that is better than its free counterpart. I will even pay for a product that I could pirate, but I will not pay more to watch ads and listen to music on only a limited number of DRM-supported devices.

tintin 15y ago
When I started making enough money to buy a car I put an end to my car stealing habit for some time. See how silly this sounds? The problem with digital media is that it's very easy to copy. You can't just copy a car. There are tons of website offering free music. So just support those artists instead of the ones charging too much for an inferior service.
- JumpCrisscross 15y ago
  "You can't just copy a car." Yup! And that's why comparing digital piracy with car theft is also equally silly. Note, I don't have a hard stance on this. Counterfeiting drugs, etc. is wrong for obvious reasons. Coming up with a similar argument for entertainment media is a bit less tenable. When the MPAA and RIAA cede the moral high ground by acting like idiots (suing 12-year olds, pushing for high criminal charges, SOPA/PIPA, etc.), it makes it more difficult to make a moral argument for the industry. The everything free argument is crap. But given that I pay for songs on iTunes but pirate TV shows because Derp Studios refuses to put it anywhere online, the user case is valid.
  - tintin 15y ago
    I was comparing the laws of theft. It's just the law that a copyright owner can ask whatever for it. When you obtain a copy without flowing this rule it is called theft. So I think the discussion should be about the copyright law. Not about "I think this service sucks so I will get an illegal copy". Don't get me wrong. I think it's absurd that you can get a penalty of $10.000 for downloading a MP3. I think the copyright rules should change. But I think it's silly to fight a law by disobeying it. It will give the MPAA good ground to say "see they are pirates".

patd 15y ago

I believe ploum still lives in France and in France when you buy a usb sticks, blank CDs and hard drives, you have to pay a "private copy tax" that can be in the tens of euros. So even if he ignores it, he is still paying them money because media companies can't adjust or accept that they're doing it wrong.

tomp 15y ago
So, does this tax then mean that I can pirate songs/movies? After all, I have already paid for them (through the tax). (Fiction, I know, but one can dream...)
- hendrik-xdest 15y ago
  The concept is a bit different, at the moment. Creating copies of copyrighted material _could_ be possible with scanners, printers, CD and DVD burners ... The fee you pay on those and other devices is rather to pay for illegal copies that are created of copyrighted material you own. Not for creating hardcopies of illegally acquired content. At least that is what is supposed to do. In reality ... well you might want to learn German for that and read this interesting tidbit about the rights holder association of Germany (GEMA): hxxp://www.musiker-online.de/Newsdetails.newsdetails.0.html?&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=267&tx_ttnews[backPid]=10&cHash=226c5da554
  - tomp 15y ago
    Isn't it you fair use right to create copies of things you already own? E.g. for backup, or for your own music compilations, ...
    - ernesth 15y ago
      Duplicating CDs (or DVDs or books) for private use is indeed legal in France (even if the original comes from a library). The "taxe sur la copie privée" is intended to compensate for the fact that fewer copies are sold because of such private copy. It has nothing to do with piracy.
- 15y ago

csomar 15y ago

This is such bullshit, I really wish I could downvote this sort of post. No. Upvote and explain why the author is wrong. We need to educate more people about piracy and intellectual property.

dorian-graph 15y ago

I agree with you so much. To this person and all the others you don't have some God given right to the content they produce/deliver. Instead of pirating go without. Will life stop if you don't watch the latest episode of Community? Probably. Give it a go. If you die I have dibs on your $2000 Macbook Pro, $800 iPhone, $250 Sennheiser headphones, etc. The very phrase 'Because you are messing with my life' in this context shows how much is wrong with the current culture. These companies are destroying civilisation? I've asked this question before: If I create a piece of software and ask you to not use it without purchasing it, will you do that? Very few people seem to be able to answer yes. The people who can't answer yes are those who are ruining civilisation. There is so much hyperbole in this article ("Messing with my life was not enough. You are even trying to destroy one of the pillar of our society: education.") I'm not quite sure if it's satirical or not, hah. Steve Jobs mentioned that in the end it comes down to the person knowing they've done something wrong after they've tried to rationalise their way out of it ("BUT IT'S NOT STEALING" or whatever the latest fad is). During high school I pirated a hell of a lot of software, videogames, music, movies—everything. I still bought more video games than most people will in their life times but that in no way balances what I pirated. I've stopped (All I have left is to make a list of the music I have and listen to in order to delete it all and slowly purchase it, which I've started doing). I either pay for something, borrow it or go without. The funny thing is, I don't like these big corporations either. I wish people would stop treating them as large, mythical and faceless entities but talk to the people behind the door. Until both sides come to understand each other and seek that communication they [we] will forever be at war. I don't support SOPA nor do I support blatant pirates.

ThomPete 15y ago
And the artists don't have a god given right to produce it once and sell it many times.
- technoslut 15y ago
  Yes they do because they created it. As much as they have ownership over their music, you have the god given right not to buy it.

skrebbel 15y ago

> This is such bullshit, I really wish I could downvote this sort of post. Don't forget that people might upvote a post not because they agree, but because they're interested in the discussion that follows. At least, it's why I upvoted the post. I hadn't completely made up my mind and arguments like yours convinced me.

ThomPete 15y ago

This argument could obviously easily be reversed. If Rihanna and others don't want their music to be pirated they shouldn't make it digital. It is not a naturally given right you know to create an album once and then sell it in millions. It's an opportunity.

jiggy2011 15y ago
It's not a right to make millions it's a right to make... whatever you make. Rihanna could release her music on vinyl only but it would still be recorded and converted to an MP3 and up on torrents in a matter of hours, digital has nothing to do with it. The business model they would probably switch to in the case of no copyright would be to distribute a small amount of the music for free but if you want to hear the rest you have to attend a live concert where you would be searched for recording devices on entry. Would you prefer that model?

ul5255 15y ago

Good point. It is strange to read how people try to justify copying music/movies/... if they never had the intention to buy it in the first place. I do have sympathy for to circumvent DRM, ... e.g. to watch a DVD of region x (which I bought) on a player of region y. I don't have any sympathy for people who steal while I pay for the same thing.