6 ms·

Yes. We technologists have made it far easier for them to crack down on dissent than ever before.

ignoramous 4y ago
You'd be surprised by just how many Modi (and right-wing) supporters exist among influential Indians in the Silicon Valley. They're not even subtle about it on Twitter.
- paganel 4y ago
  I was actually wondering about that yesterday. It seems like the West, and the US more specifically, isn't capable anymore of physically reproducing/replacing its technocratic elites, which in this day and age mostly means its tech elites. Which made me wonder what would happen in case of a direct US vs China war when in some companies 20% to 30% to even 50% of the engineers have some close family connections on the Mainland. Will those engineers and tech people be ok with seeing China losing and their close family back home physically hurting? What would happen if the US starts playing it rough with India? When you've got the CEOs of some of the biggest US tech companies being of Indian descent themselves, not to mention the large percentage of Indian engineers active in the Valley and not only. It was way easier to set up the Manhattan project when many of the people involved had escaped physical annihilation here in Europe (against them and against their close family), but will the US be able to reproduce a future Manhattan project (let's say in AI) using and employing people whose families back home (in China, most probably, in India, as a possibility) would be directly and life-threatening affected by their work? I have my doubts.
  - mikehotel 4y ago
    Many Indians in America or Americans of Indian descent disagree with the rise of fascism in India. Of course many also fall into the default nationalistic mode and become defensive. Actions to take against a ruling party that has widespread support from the police, legislature, judiciary, and media are limited. In India, about 15% of Indians are Christians, Muslims, or other non Hindus. And among Hindus, about 40% are Dalits. The majority of Indians in India are threatened by this rise in fascist actions and rhetoric. And yet, even against all odds, a few people in India stand up for justice. The silence or inaction of the majority should not be criticized too harshly since it is not easy to put everything on the line. But those that do deserve all of humanity’s appreciation. Under Modi, India’s press is not as free anymore - April 2, 2020 - Vindu Goel and Jeffrey Gettleman https://archive.ph/zPhMH https://archive.ph/zPhMH Jailed Indian journalist gets bail almost two years after arrest - September 10, 2022 - Shaikh Azizur Rahman https://archive.ph/5sxUA https://archive.ph/5sxUA Rana Ayyub, journalist and Modi critic, barred from leaving India - March 30, 2022 - Aakash Hassan https://archive.ph/Ibu7S https://archive.ph/Ibu7S
    - paganel 4y ago
      > Many Indians in America or Americans of Indian descent disagree with the rise of fascism in India I'm aware of that, as I'm also aware that many Russians (especially the educated tech elites) are against the current government in Moscow. I was trying to put myself in the shoes of the guys calling the shots in Washington, as in, what measures should be taken in regards to the Chinese very-well represented tech diaspora in case of a war against China? (and, as I said, if some skirmishes involving the current Indian leadership were to start). When it came to Russia it looks like the the US and the West went all in, almost all Russians were treated as guilty by default unless. I'm wondering if the same actions will be taken against the Chinese working for the big US tech firms (or against the Indians). I'm saying that that would be harder for the US to carry out (compared to the current shitting on the Russian diaspora).
      - naravara 4y ago
        Where did you get 40%? The proportion of scheduled castes is somewhere in the mid-20s, you only get into the mid- to high-30s if you include "Other Backwards Castes," who aren't Dalits but are able to make a general case that they were low on the status hierarchy historically. But, cynically, that whole framework is mostly just a way for the numerically large smallholder classes to create reservations, that were originally meant to correct for untouchability, for themselves through a sort of caste-based patronage politics. There are also lower and higher castes among Indian Muslims and Christians as well. It's a indigenous form of social stratification, more analogous to how we think of ethnicity or race, that's independent of peoples' confessional identity.
        mikehotel 4y ago
        Do you think there is a rise in fascist actions and rhetoric in India? And that the majority of Indians are threatened by this? Thanks for correcting me on OBC and Dalits. The framework is definitely problematic. And it adds another layer of complexity to racial, religious, and economic demographics. Thanks for prompting me to learn more about this. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/attitudes-about-caste/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/attitudes-ab...
- cafard 4y ago
  In Washington, DC, there was a big rally against the revised Indian citizenship laws, all participants looking plausibly Indian. Of course, I have no idea of how influential the participants are.
- rayiner 4y ago
  Modi is relatively popular among Indian Americans. Less popular than people in India, but more popular than you’d expect given Indian Americans’ voting patterns: https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/02/09/how-do-indian-americans-view-india-results-from-2020-indian-american-attitudes-survey-pub-83800 https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/02/09/how-do-indian-ameri... > The Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) is the most popular political party among Indian Americans. One-third of respondents favor the ruling BJP while just 12 percent identify with the Congress Party > Indian Americans hold broadly favorable views of Modi. Nearly half of all Indian Americans approve of Modi’s performance as prime minister This goes to a central contradiction which I’ve observed among Americans originally from the subcontinent: “liberalism for thee but not for me.”
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
BeFlatXIII 4y ago
There isn't really any "we technologists" that can collectively decide to stop the madness.

You'd be surprised by just how many Modi (and right-wing) supporters exist among influential Indians in the Silicon Valley. They're not even subtle about it on Twitter.

paganel 4y ago
I was actually wondering about that yesterday. It seems like the West, and the US more specifically, isn't capable anymore of physically reproducing/replacing its technocratic elites, which in this day and age mostly means its tech elites. Which made me wonder what would happen in case of a direct US vs China war when in some companies 20% to 30% to even 50% of the engineers have some close family connections on the Mainland. Will those engineers and tech people be ok with seeing China losing and their close family back home physically hurting? What would happen if the US starts playing it rough with India? When you've got the CEOs of some of the biggest US tech companies being of Indian descent themselves, not to mention the large percentage of Indian engineers active in the Valley and not only. It was way easier to set up the Manhattan project when many of the people involved had escaped physical annihilation here in Europe (against them and against their close family), but will the US be able to reproduce a future Manhattan project (let's say in AI) using and employing people whose families back home (in China, most probably, in India, as a possibility) would be directly and life-threatening affected by their work? I have my doubts.
- mikehotel 4y ago
  Many Indians in America or Americans of Indian descent disagree with the rise of fascism in India. Of course many also fall into the default nationalistic mode and become defensive. Actions to take against a ruling party that has widespread support from the police, legislature, judiciary, and media are limited. In India, about 15% of Indians are Christians, Muslims, or other non Hindus. And among Hindus, about 40% are Dalits. The majority of Indians in India are threatened by this rise in fascist actions and rhetoric. And yet, even against all odds, a few people in India stand up for justice. The silence or inaction of the majority should not be criticized too harshly since it is not easy to put everything on the line. But those that do deserve all of humanity’s appreciation. Under Modi, India’s press is not as free anymore - April 2, 2020 - Vindu Goel and Jeffrey Gettleman https://archive.ph/zPhMH https://archive.ph/zPhMH Jailed Indian journalist gets bail almost two years after arrest - September 10, 2022 - Shaikh Azizur Rahman https://archive.ph/5sxUA https://archive.ph/5sxUA Rana Ayyub, journalist and Modi critic, barred from leaving India - March 30, 2022 - Aakash Hassan https://archive.ph/Ibu7S https://archive.ph/Ibu7S
  - paganel 4y ago
    > Many Indians in America or Americans of Indian descent disagree with the rise of fascism in India I'm aware of that, as I'm also aware that many Russians (especially the educated tech elites) are against the current government in Moscow. I was trying to put myself in the shoes of the guys calling the shots in Washington, as in, what measures should be taken in regards to the Chinese very-well represented tech diaspora in case of a war against China? (and, as I said, if some skirmishes involving the current Indian leadership were to start). When it came to Russia it looks like the the US and the West went all in, almost all Russians were treated as guilty by default unless. I'm wondering if the same actions will be taken against the Chinese working for the big US tech firms (or against the Indians). I'm saying that that would be harder for the US to carry out (compared to the current shitting on the Russian diaspora).
    - naravara 4y ago
      Where did you get 40%? The proportion of scheduled castes is somewhere in the mid-20s, you only get into the mid- to high-30s if you include "Other Backwards Castes," who aren't Dalits but are able to make a general case that they were low on the status hierarchy historically. But, cynically, that whole framework is mostly just a way for the numerically large smallholder classes to create reservations, that were originally meant to correct for untouchability, for themselves through a sort of caste-based patronage politics. There are also lower and higher castes among Indian Muslims and Christians as well. It's a indigenous form of social stratification, more analogous to how we think of ethnicity or race, that's independent of peoples' confessional identity.
      - mikehotel 4y ago
        Do you think there is a rise in fascist actions and rhetoric in India? And that the majority of Indians are threatened by this? Thanks for correcting me on OBC and Dalits. The framework is definitely problematic. And it adds another layer of complexity to racial, religious, and economic demographics. Thanks for prompting me to learn more about this. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/attitudes-about-caste/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/attitudes-ab...
cafard 4y ago
In Washington, DC, there was a big rally against the revised Indian citizenship laws, all participants looking plausibly Indian. Of course, I have no idea of how influential the participants are.
rayiner 4y ago
Modi is relatively popular among Indian Americans. Less popular than people in India, but more popular than you’d expect given Indian Americans’ voting patterns: https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/02/09/how-do-indian-americans-view-india-results-from-2020-indian-american-attitudes-survey-pub-83800 https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/02/09/how-do-indian-ameri... > The Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) is the most popular political party among Indian Americans. One-third of respondents favor the ruling BJP while just 12 percent identify with the Congress Party > Indian Americans hold broadly favorable views of Modi. Nearly half of all Indian Americans approve of Modi’s performance as prime minister This goes to a central contradiction which I’ve observed among Americans originally from the subcontinent: “liberalism for thee but not for me.”
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

BeFlatXIII 4y ago

There isn't really any "we technologists" that can collectively decide to stop the madness.