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In our large company, we often had a consulting firm that advised us in difficult times. Bottom line, they said that they think the company needs to deeply brea

by ttyyzz 4y ago

In our large company, we often had a consulting firm that advised us in difficult times. Bottom line, they said that they think the company needs to deeply breath out and then breathe in again. After the severance payments, we were always urgently looking for people. For me, that was always proof that the managers had failed. But a disproportionately small number of managers had to leave the company.

civicsquid 4y ago
I have no idea what will happen, but it sort of sounded like (from the limited reporting that's been done) they'll focus a bit more on managers / non-ICs this time -- if it happens at all. It is kind of nasty to think about the timing though. If true, they kept those managers around to do the very undesirable and time-consuming performance cycle (yearly review) work and will be letting them go now that the process has concluded.
- a4a4a4a4 4y ago
  I think Meta does reviews every 6 months, which makes it basically perpetual.
  - nicolashahn 4y ago
    Official perf reviews recently switched to yearly, but there's a "touchpoint" every three months, which is just a very light perf review with no ratings/direct outcomes until the annual one
qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
The people leave, but the culture of failure stays. Its a long way down, until in some run down office park, the last flickering neon light goes dark. Whats more interesting though is how the let go workers venture within there cultural spheres. Meta workers are more likely to go to places, that have adapted similar cultures, with AB Tests.
- silisili 4y ago
  I witnessed this firsthand. I worked for a decent sized public company but large gov contractor in DC. Super smart people, I was learning a ton. Then the layoffs started. In honesty, mostly OK decisions but a few really bad key ones. Then I watched the super smart people see the writing on the wall and leave, mostly to Google. Then I felt stupid, if all the smart people left what did that make me? Well, it made me a big fish in a small pond, and I probably learned little of value over the next couple years, until I inevitably left too. The company now is a sad shell of what it once was. I guess this type of story is all too common.
karmakurtisaani 4y ago
I think a big factor in these layoffs is to signal the market that the companies are "cutting fat". The market gets the signal, stock price goes up and the board of directors eases the pressure on the CEO. After this the company can resume business as usual, which will require quietly hiring to fill the needed positions.
- civicsquid 4y ago
  At least in the case of Meta / Facebook, I don't think there is any pressure on the CEO. Zuckerberg owns controlling interest over the company to the point where the board of directors are essentially advisory. I believe I read that he owns over 75% of Class B shares, for which he gets 10 votes for every 1 vote that a regular Class A voter gets. That's a lot of power. This has allowed the company to ignore Wall Street in the past, which makes me think he's not suddenly concerned about Wall Street now. Whatever Zuck does is really his choice and responsibility.
kypro 4y ago
Sounds like your company had no idea why they were doing the lay offs so just go rid of workers lower down the chain while keeping their friends. I've seen the same thing happen in a large corp I've worked for directed by the advice of McKinsey. The funny thing in this case though was that it was Accenture which advised them to hire the engineering department two years prior to help with innovation. Then after a couple of years of building out the team they advised them fire the whole department and outsource it to cut costs. The only people who remained were managers.
MichaelMoser123 4y ago
Just out of curiosity: who is deciding where the cuts need to be made? I mean does the consulting firm prepare a detailed proposal or is it all decided by management in-house?
kmac_ 4y ago
"Deeply breath out and then breathe in" It's hard to breathe in vacuum and I doubt that current layoffs will fill it (unless we are in a long recession). Next breath in can be very expensive.
penguin_booze 4y ago
Topical: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34778954 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34778954.
TomSwirly 4y ago
And yet if we as individuals prioritize ourselves over our companies, we are called "disloyal".

by ttyyzz 4y ago

civicsquid 4y ago

I have no idea what will happen, but it sort of sounded like (from the limited reporting that's been done) they'll focus a bit more on managers / non-ICs this time -- if it happens at all. It is kind of nasty to think about the timing though. If true, they kept those managers around to do the very undesirable and time-consuming performance cycle (yearly review) work and will be letting them go now that the process has concluded.

a4a4a4a4 4y ago
I think Meta does reviews every 6 months, which makes it basically perpetual.
- nicolashahn 4y ago
  Official perf reviews recently switched to yearly, but there's a "touchpoint" every three months, which is just a very light perf review with no ratings/direct outcomes until the annual one

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago

The people leave, but the culture of failure stays. Its a long way down, until in some run down office park, the last flickering neon light goes dark. Whats more interesting though is how the let go workers venture within there cultural spheres. Meta workers are more likely to go to places, that have adapted similar cultures, with AB Tests.

silisili 4y ago
I witnessed this firsthand. I worked for a decent sized public company but large gov contractor in DC. Super smart people, I was learning a ton. Then the layoffs started. In honesty, mostly OK decisions but a few really bad key ones. Then I watched the super smart people see the writing on the wall and leave, mostly to Google. Then I felt stupid, if all the smart people left what did that make me? Well, it made me a big fish in a small pond, and I probably learned little of value over the next couple years, until I inevitably left too. The company now is a sad shell of what it once was. I guess this type of story is all too common.

karmakurtisaani 4y ago

I think a big factor in these layoffs is to signal the market that the companies are "cutting fat". The market gets the signal, stock price goes up and the board of directors eases the pressure on the CEO. After this the company can resume business as usual, which will require quietly hiring to fill the needed positions.

civicsquid 4y ago
At least in the case of Meta / Facebook, I don't think there is any pressure on the CEO. Zuckerberg owns controlling interest over the company to the point where the board of directors are essentially advisory. I believe I read that he owns over 75% of Class B shares, for which he gets 10 votes for every 1 vote that a regular Class A voter gets. That's a lot of power. This has allowed the company to ignore Wall Street in the past, which makes me think he's not suddenly concerned about Wall Street now. Whatever Zuck does is really his choice and responsibility.

kypro 4y ago

Sounds like your company had no idea why they were doing the lay offs so just go rid of workers lower down the chain while keeping their friends. I've seen the same thing happen in a large corp I've worked for directed by the advice of McKinsey. The funny thing in this case though was that it was Accenture which advised them to hire the engineering department two years prior to help with innovation. Then after a couple of years of building out the team they advised them fire the whole department and outsource it to cut costs. The only people who remained were managers.

MichaelMoser123 4y ago

Just out of curiosity: who is deciding where the cuts need to be made? I mean does the consulting firm prepare a detailed proposal or is it all decided by management in-house?

kmac_ 4y ago

"Deeply breath out and then breathe in" It's hard to breathe in vacuum and I doubt that current layoffs will fill it (unless we are in a long recession). Next breath in can be very expensive.

penguin_booze 4y ago

Topical: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34778954 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34778954.

TomSwirly 4y ago

And yet if we as individuals prioritize ourselves over our companies, we are called "disloyal".