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My house is already maxed out on electric capacity because I have an electric car. I've investigated increasing the current coming into the house, but changes

by aag 4y ago

My house is already maxed out on electric capacity because I have an electric car. I've investigated increasing the current coming into the house, but changes in code mean that making that upgrade would cost $20K. So if my hot water breaks, it will cost me $20K+ to fix it. That's not reasonable.

photonbucket 4y ago
It'd be quite a talking point if this forced you to get an ICE car again
jlkjawl 4y ago
Don't forget the government wants to drain your car battery each night to deal with all the new load this is going to generate. :)
AdamJacobMuller 4y ago
I'm not remotely in favor of this kind of forced conversion described in the article, but, if you actually want to install electric appliances (stove/heater) you can actually do so relatively cheaply without a service upgrade. Basically need to consider that while all of your combined appliances may use far more than your service can supply, they will rarely to never need to all run at the same time. You can interlock appliances and give them some priority so that, for example, when your electric range is on your other power hungry appliances can not be. You wouldn't actually notice or care about this in reality since in a 24h period everything in your home will receive more than ample power just spread out over a longer period of time. The only downside is that not many electricians are capable or willing to install or service a system like this. I'm sure that pool will grow and I'm quite sure that in the future this kind of demand-side management is going to be effectively mandated and I don't see that as a good thing.
- reissbaker 4y ago
  Many jurisdictions in CA have made what you're describing illegal. E.g. in Berkeley, where I live, I'd need enough service for everything to run at the same time to make it past the permitting and inspections folks.
  - AdamJacobMuller 4y ago
    Even with a load shedding system? That's absurd, there is absolutely no local (your house) technical reason why this is unsafe and no grid-level reason why it's a bad idea and no generation-level reason why it's a bad idea. By doing this you shift loads off peak and flatten the demand curve for power, this is an absolute win for transmission/grid capacity (they are most efficient at 100% utilization) and a huge win on generation capacity! That is absolutely insane if you're correct, but, not unexpected from CA.
- rendall 4y ago
  I've never heard of this. Is there more information about such a system online? Edit: I went ahead and asked the AI What is this system called? Who are purveyors of this kind of system? > The system being referred to is called a "load management system" or "load shedding system." It involves interlocking appliances and prioritizing their usage to manage electricity demand and prevent overloading of the electrical service. Some electric utility companies and home automation companies offer load management systems, and electricians may also be able to install and service these systems. How does it work? How do the appliances communicate? > A load management system works by using a controller device that is installed in the home's electrical panel. This controller communicates wirelessly or via wired connections with the various appliances in the home. The controller is programmed to manage the electrical load by monitoring the power usage of each appliance and turning them on or off in a prioritized sequence when there is a risk of overloading the electrical service. > For example, the load management system may be programmed to turn off power to non-essential appliances when the air conditioner is turned on, or to delay the start of the dishwasher until the washing machine has finished its cycle. The communication between the controller and the appliances is typically done using a protocol called Zigbee or Z-Wave, which allows for wireless communication over short distances.
reissbaker 4y ago
Same. And it would most likely take months to upgrade the electric service given PG&E's incredibly slow timetables + permitting, because the electric cables are undergrounded on my street and they'd need to dig trenches. Enforcing electric water heaters and furnaces for new construction makes sense, but forcing everyone to retrofit in six years or else face massive costs + potentially months without heat or hot water is insane. And what would you do even if your furnace broke within the six-year timeframe? Buy an entirely new gas furnace that will be illegal to repair within a few years? No, you'd still effectively be forced into the months-long, double-digit thousands of dollars expense to upgrade electrical service with the monopoly that controls electric service in CA.

by aag 4y ago

photonbucket 4y ago

It'd be quite a talking point if this forced you to get an ICE car again

jlkjawl 4y ago

Don't forget the government wants to drain your car battery each night to deal with all the new load this is going to generate. :)

AdamJacobMuller 4y ago

I'm not remotely in favor of this kind of forced conversion described in the article, but, if you actually want to install electric appliances (stove/heater) you can actually do so relatively cheaply without a service upgrade. Basically need to consider that while all of your combined appliances may use far more than your service can supply, they will rarely to never need to all run at the same time. You can interlock appliances and give them some priority so that, for example, when your electric range is on your other power hungry appliances can not be. You wouldn't actually notice or care about this in reality since in a 24h period everything in your home will receive more than ample power just spread out over a longer period of time. The only downside is that not many electricians are capable or willing to install or service a system like this. I'm sure that pool will grow and I'm quite sure that in the future this kind of demand-side management is going to be effectively mandated and I don't see that as a good thing.

reissbaker 4y ago
Many jurisdictions in CA have made what you're describing illegal. E.g. in Berkeley, where I live, I'd need enough service for everything to run at the same time to make it past the permitting and inspections folks.
- AdamJacobMuller 4y ago
  Even with a load shedding system? That's absurd, there is absolutely no local (your house) technical reason why this is unsafe and no grid-level reason why it's a bad idea and no generation-level reason why it's a bad idea. By doing this you shift loads off peak and flatten the demand curve for power, this is an absolute win for transmission/grid capacity (they are most efficient at 100% utilization) and a huge win on generation capacity! That is absolutely insane if you're correct, but, not unexpected from CA.
rendall 4y ago
I've never heard of this. Is there more information about such a system online? Edit: I went ahead and asked the AI What is this system called? Who are purveyors of this kind of system? > The system being referred to is called a "load management system" or "load shedding system." It involves interlocking appliances and prioritizing their usage to manage electricity demand and prevent overloading of the electrical service. Some electric utility companies and home automation companies offer load management systems, and electricians may also be able to install and service these systems. How does it work? How do the appliances communicate? > A load management system works by using a controller device that is installed in the home's electrical panel. This controller communicates wirelessly or via wired connections with the various appliances in the home. The controller is programmed to manage the electrical load by monitoring the power usage of each appliance and turning them on or off in a prioritized sequence when there is a risk of overloading the electrical service. > For example, the load management system may be programmed to turn off power to non-essential appliances when the air conditioner is turned on, or to delay the start of the dishwasher until the washing machine has finished its cycle. The communication between the controller and the appliances is typically done using a protocol called Zigbee or Z-Wave, which allows for wireless communication over short distances.

reissbaker 4y ago

Same. And it would most likely take months to upgrade the electric service given PG&E's incredibly slow timetables + permitting, because the electric cables are undergrounded on my street and they'd need to dig trenches. Enforcing electric water heaters and furnaces for new construction makes sense, but forcing everyone to retrofit in six years or else face massive costs + potentially months without heat or hot water is insane. And what would you do even if your furnace broke within the six-year timeframe? Buy an entirely new gas furnace that will be illegal to repair within a few years? No, you'd still effectively be forced into the months-long, double-digit thousands of dollars expense to upgrade electrical service with the monopoly that controls electric service in CA.