5 ms·

Is it possible to use one of these as a big screen for developing software? It would be better and more portable than my multi monitor setup. Maybe I'd be able

by neves 4y ago

Is it possible to use one of these as a big screen for developing software? It would be better and more portable than my multi monitor setup. Maybe I'd be able to focus and concentrate more. Which would be the downsides?

charcircuit 4y ago
>Which would be the downsides? Your monitors would be a higher resolution than these. You would be tethered to your PC.
- zmmmmm 4y ago
  it works pretty well over Wifi with Immersed. I go all over the house leaving my laptop in my study and just carry a bluetooth keyboard around. But the resolution part is on point. It's one of the reason it's exciting to see these improvements rolling out, we can finally get over this resolution barrier.
skykooler 4y ago
I'm not sure what the field of view is with this, but I've experimented with that with a valve index and the biggest downside is that virtual screens end up quite low resolution, to the point that to have legible text they need to take up most of your field of view (to the point that in the same visible area where you could have four physical monitors, you'd need to have a single virtual monitor that's scaled up so you can read text on it). The other thing to consider in terms of portability is that these have very high resolution displays (they just don't necessarily look high resolution because they take up such a large fraction of your field of view), and also need to be run at 100+ hz to minimize motion sickness. While this is easily doable with gaming graphics cards, many development-focused laptops don't have the GPU horsepower necessary to handle it. Finally, it looks like this is using SteamVR headset tracking. This is an outside-in tracking system that relies on a pair of external tracking beacons that the headset needs to have line of sight to, to figure out its position and orientation. If these are moved, their position needs to be recalibrated. So it's also less ideal for portability in that you need to set up and run power to two other external devices and have somewhere to mount them while using the headset.
- mojomark 4y ago
  It's not FOV that's needed for virtual monitors displaying readable text in VR, it's resolution. Not the flat panel resolution either... the only resolution that matters for VR and AR displays is Pixels Per Degree (PPD). This is because unlike a real monitor or TV, you can't back away from the monitor to increase the PPD. For VR and AR displays, the eye relief is constant, thus the PPD is fixed. You need >35 PPD to read legible text on a displays. 62PPD is the maximum resolution of the typical human eye. So, if you can get the company to advertise their PPD (doubtful, but some display providers do and are truthful), then you can answer your question.
  - mojomark 4y ago
    They actually advertise 28PPD on their site. That's actually not too bad, but still not very good for reading text on a virtual monitor. Note that that 35PPD spec comes from the equivalent PPD when viewing 12pt font on a physical standard 1280p 14" display monitor at a seated distance (eye relief) of 20" from the monitor. So, there's some subjectivity in that value. I guess if you're used to working in, say, 38pt font or so, the this 28PPD might be ok? (I didn't do the math)
  - sudhirj 4y ago
    What's the PPD required for a "Retina" display (one at which individual pixels are no longer distinguishable)? Is that 62 or some other value?
    - mojomark 4y ago
      The Googles told me 60PPD (1): "If there is any single number that people point to for resolution, it is the 1 arcminute value that Apple uses to indicate a “Retina Display”. This number corresponds to around 300 PPI for a display that is at 10-12 inches from the eye. In other words, this is about 60 pixels per degree (PPD)." 1.) https://www.anandtech.com/show/7743/the-pixel-density-race-and-its-technical-merits https://www.anandtech.com/show/7743/the-pixel-density-race-a...
- fragmede 4y ago
rubicon33 4y ago
Yes, look up an app called Immersed. It does exactly what you want. The downside has always been comfort and screen clarity, which this headset seems to solve!
zmmmmm 4y ago
Yes I do this routinely, using a Quest Pro. The main downside is that the resolution just isn't there yet on the Quest Pro to make what you are seeing comparable to a real monitor. If you want to see the same "amount" of eg: text, you will be looking at a bigger screen in space - which is what I do. I stare at the equivalent of about a 32" monitor. It is OK if you only need to use a single monitor, but the advertised benefit of having as many monitors as you want isn't as great as you would think because they have to be so big that you have to rotate your head a lot. You also need to be pretty good at touch typing. If you can't type without looking at your fingers, it becomes painful fast - even with passthrough showing you the keyboard or with a tracked keyboard (which shows up rendered in VR). All of this will change with the next gen as they bump up significantly in resolution. I already use it routinely to get a "change of scene" and to focus more. It's quite fun to go into the public rooms and co-work with half a dozen other people doing the same thing from all over the world. So once the resolution goes up another notch I think we'll hit the point where it's unambiguously better for a lot of people than a real monitor and this will start to take off. For now, you have to have a reason or be an enthusiast to want to do it.
paraknight 4y ago
I would suggest trying AR glasses rather than VR headsets. I work on the go on Nreal Air glasses (basically a Full HD monitor in glasses form) over Samsung DeX and VNC. My phone turns into a track pad and I carry a small keyboard.

by neves 4y ago

charcircuit 4y ago

>Which would be the downsides? Your monitors would be a higher resolution than these. You would be tethered to your PC.

zmmmmm 4y ago
it works pretty well over Wifi with Immersed. I go all over the house leaving my laptop in my study and just carry a bluetooth keyboard around. But the resolution part is on point. It's one of the reason it's exciting to see these improvements rolling out, we can finally get over this resolution barrier.

skykooler 4y ago

I'm not sure what the field of view is with this, but I've experimented with that with a valve index and the biggest downside is that virtual screens end up quite low resolution, to the point that to have legible text they need to take up most of your field of view (to the point that in the same visible area where you could have four physical monitors, you'd need to have a single virtual monitor that's scaled up so you can read text on it). The other thing to consider in terms of portability is that these have very high resolution displays (they just don't necessarily look high resolution because they take up such a large fraction of your field of view), and also need to be run at 100+ hz to minimize motion sickness. While this is easily doable with gaming graphics cards, many development-focused laptops don't have the GPU horsepower necessary to handle it. Finally, it looks like this is using SteamVR headset tracking. This is an outside-in tracking system that relies on a pair of external tracking beacons that the headset needs to have line of sight to, to figure out its position and orientation. If these are moved, their position needs to be recalibrated. So it's also less ideal for portability in that you need to set up and run power to two other external devices and have somewhere to mount them while using the headset.

mojomark 4y ago
It's not FOV that's needed for virtual monitors displaying readable text in VR, it's resolution. Not the flat panel resolution either... the only resolution that matters for VR and AR displays is Pixels Per Degree (PPD). This is because unlike a real monitor or TV, you can't back away from the monitor to increase the PPD. For VR and AR displays, the eye relief is constant, thus the PPD is fixed. You need >35 PPD to read legible text on a displays. 62PPD is the maximum resolution of the typical human eye. So, if you can get the company to advertise their PPD (doubtful, but some display providers do and are truthful), then you can answer your question.
- mojomark 4y ago
  They actually advertise 28PPD on their site. That's actually not too bad, but still not very good for reading text on a virtual monitor. Note that that 35PPD spec comes from the equivalent PPD when viewing 12pt font on a physical standard 1280p 14" display monitor at a seated distance (eye relief) of 20" from the monitor. So, there's some subjectivity in that value. I guess if you're used to working in, say, 38pt font or so, the this 28PPD might be ok? (I didn't do the math)
- sudhirj 4y ago
  What's the PPD required for a "Retina" display (one at which individual pixels are no longer distinguishable)? Is that 62 or some other value?
  - mojomark 4y ago
    The Googles told me 60PPD (1): "If there is any single number that people point to for resolution, it is the 1 arcminute value that Apple uses to indicate a “Retina Display”. This number corresponds to around 300 PPI for a display that is at 10-12 inches from the eye. In other words, this is about 60 pixels per degree (PPD)." 1.) https://www.anandtech.com/show/7743/the-pixel-density-race-and-its-technical-merits https://www.anandtech.com/show/7743/the-pixel-density-race-a...
fragmede 4y ago

rubicon33 4y ago

Yes, look up an app called Immersed. It does exactly what you want. The downside has always been comfort and screen clarity, which this headset seems to solve!

zmmmmm 4y ago

Yes I do this routinely, using a Quest Pro. The main downside is that the resolution just isn't there yet on the Quest Pro to make what you are seeing comparable to a real monitor. If you want to see the same "amount" of eg: text, you will be looking at a bigger screen in space - which is what I do. I stare at the equivalent of about a 32" monitor. It is OK if you only need to use a single monitor, but the advertised benefit of having as many monitors as you want isn't as great as you would think because they have to be so big that you have to rotate your head a lot. You also need to be pretty good at touch typing. If you can't type without looking at your fingers, it becomes painful fast - even with passthrough showing you the keyboard or with a tracked keyboard (which shows up rendered in VR). All of this will change with the next gen as they bump up significantly in resolution. I already use it routinely to get a "change of scene" and to focus more. It's quite fun to go into the public rooms and co-work with half a dozen other people doing the same thing from all over the world. So once the resolution goes up another notch I think we'll hit the point where it's unambiguously better for a lot of people than a real monitor and this will start to take off. For now, you have to have a reason or be an enthusiast to want to do it.

paraknight 4y ago

I would suggest trying AR glasses rather than VR headsets. I work on the go on Nreal Air glasses (basically a Full HD monitor in glasses form) over Samsung DeX and VNC. My phone turns into a track pad and I carry a small keyboard.