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Here is your argument: "This is just ridiculous." It's known as argument from ignorance, and it is fallacious argument. You can't say why I'm wrong, you just th
by Maursault 4y ago
Here is your argument: "This is just ridiculous." It's known as argument from ignorance, and it is fallacious argument. You can't say why I'm wrong, you just think I'm wrong and can't prove it. Because I can't be proven wrong, because this is how it happened, and it is accurate history that the mobile web as we know it today sprang from Apple's agenda for mobile Safari browsing from the seeds of their Web App bullshit.
Fundamentally, Web Apps had nothing to do with iOS7. It was html. It was javascript. But most importantly it was design specifications. It was teaching web developers "for a small screen, you have to make everything big big big. Use this menu design, and make elements giant so users can see them on their tiny phone," completely forgetting that the killer feature of mobile Safari was pinch and zoom, which every single other mobile browser copied. So these design specifications for mobile versions of websites, which were completely unnecessary, took on a life of their own. At first they were just lists. They looked nothing like the full site, they were just lists of hierarchical forms using iPhone menus in html. It became more annoying from there, but it all started with Apple showing web developers how to do it, and everyone wanted to tap into the iPhone user base, so they made these shitty Apple design specified mobile websites that are terrible and constrictive and some of the worst design because it was homogeneous. All the mobile sites looked the same.
Then they gave web developers the ability to prevent a mobile Safari user from using its its one killer feature, namely, zoom. Apple gave web developers the ability to disable zooming into a paragraph or a picture. You must view this page only how the OCD web developer decided you will view it. And its still being used to this day. There are countless sites that mobile Safari can't zoom into elements on, and the result of this is copy that can't be read on such a small screen. At the other extreme is text so large lines can't fit across the screen.
WAP certainly sucked, but it didn't get in the way of the actual WWW. You had to intentionally go to a WAP version of a site. After Apple, 2007, no more! We will detect your mobile browser and force you to the mobile web whether you want it or not. And good luck defeating it, because any link you click, we'll detect your mobile browser again and keep stuffing you in the shitty hole of the mobile web versions of websites.
I, for one, would be happy if I never saw another mobile site again. It's unnecessary, absolutely unnecessary in 2023, even when browsing over cellular, it is no longer necessary, yet it persists for no reason, by the ignorance of web developers that think someone prefers to see a broken, dysfunctional, inoperable version of the web site they're trying to view but aren't allowed because decisions are being made for them.
The mobile web all began with Apple and iPhone and the delay of the iPhoneSDK, and Web Apps. And we're still living with this flawed and defective paradigm now from any mobile browser, which again, if it was once needed to save the cost of cellular data, it stopped being needed years ago, and yet the detritus of that agenda is still with us.
And you're welcome to disagree with me, but without actually backing up any claims, or at least forming a rational argument, it's just not going to be very persuasive. "You're wrong, you don't know what you're talking about, that's not how it happened," isn't saying anything substantive.
- tinus_hn 4y agoThanks for writing that wall of text, it’s bs and I’m not going to read it. Don’t waste your time.
- Maursault 4y agoVery clever, but also an infinite ignorance fallacy. When you're wrong and can't accept it, pissing off is really the best thing for you to do.
- tinus_hn 4y agoWhen your proposition is clearly nonsensical you can make up all the best arguments in the world, and it still will never be anything but nonsensical. You’re wasting your breath.
- Maursault 4y agoAgain with an appeal to common sense, the fallacy of unsupported assertion. I'll repeat, you don't agree with me, but you don't know why I'm wrong, and you can't prove it because, in fact, I'm right. You can prove me wrong quite effortlessly by showing one single non-WAP mobile website that existed before January 2007. But it's impossible because they didn't exist before Apple's initiative to build the mobile web (or "Web Apps") due to the delay of the iPhoneSDK, which they did by influencing web developers to use Apple's mobile site design specifications and web tools to try to get mobile Safari users' eyes and clicks on their content.
- tinus_hn 4y agoEven if that is true, which I kind of doubt because before the iPhone there was Opera Mini, it doesn’t prove anything, because obviously if Apple hadn’t made the iPhone, a few years later someone else would have made a phone that could browse the web, and then we would have gotten web apps created for that phone. It’s natural progression, not some diabolical plot by Steve Jobs. I’m pretty sure that the first version of Android that was in the works when Apple released the iPhone came with a web browser just as well. It’s kind of obvious people want that. If you want to blame someone for web apps, you have to blame either Microsoft who started it all with Outlook Web Access, or Google who lead the way to real interactivity with Google Maps. Perhaps Brandon Eich who created Javascript, Sun who created Java or whoever created the DOM. To blame Apple or Steve Jobs is nonsensical. And to insist that ‘everybody loathes mobile web apps’ is ridiculous. On this very site there’s plenty of people that prefer Reddits mobile web app to the apps and Twitters web app to the apps. You don’t like them and you don’t like how nobody cares about what you want.