5 ms·

Normally I wouldn't respond in a thread I had already declared OT, but you've asked a fairly direct question. Smith is a windbag who riles up viewers about con

Normally I wouldn't respond in a thread I had already declared OT, but you've asked a fairly direct question. Smith is a windbag who riles up viewers about controversial trivia. He is less obnoxious than most such, since his topics typically relate to sports rather than politics, but nothing he has said outside the realm of sports (and fairly little he has said within it) would indicate a habit of deep thought. Tucker passed away 17 years ago, and in the preceding decade seems primarily to have been a one-note instrument. Cosby's infamy perhaps doesn't disqualify him as a source of advice, but it makes one wonder. What common thread weaves through these three seemingly different exemplars you've chosen? I prefer to think in terms of ethics rather than morality, and in terms of timeless values rather than current events. I struggle with this, but I feel I have benefited from the works of Walter Kaufmann, Kierkegaard, and other existentialist and existentialist-adjacent thinkers. If you seek moral advice and can't find it in your bible or at church, perhaps you might appreciate e.g. Jason Whitlock? I do, but in a different way than most of his other fans, I suspect.

EGreg 4y ago
I suppose the common thread is that they are all outspoken Black people, from different walks of life, who have all recognized that corrosive influences are coming from certain capitalist entertainment industries and contributing to cultural/moral degradation as a negative externality made in the name of profit. Cosby spent YEARS playing "America's dad" for the Black family, as did James Avery, Reginald VelJohnson and others. They provided a wholesome role model to look up to, of a married family man, who provides for his kids and teaches them manners and morals, as opposed to "role models" poppin bottles and bangin models that the rap industry provides. Misogynistic lyrics, racial slurs, materialistic lifestyles, sometimes even glorifying violence. What good does it do? If outsiders can't criticize it because it is "authentic Black expression", then it falls to Black voices to do so. And they do, increasingly. To try to combat moral / cultural degradation and restore family values takes both economic and cultural reform. This used to be the subject of Black sit coms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5D2RvIQwQE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5D2RvIQwQE And even CNN anchor Don Lemon used to OPENLY say stuff like this: https://www.cnn.com/videos/bestoftv/2013/07/27/nr-lemon-no-talking-points.cnn https://www.cnn.com/videos/bestoftv/2013/07/27/nr-lemon-no-t... So Steven A Smith said the same: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb4pEN3s7B8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb4pEN3s7B8 Deloris Tucker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr6gb1w72xA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr6gb1w72xA I mean, I think you're tilting at windmills here when you're going after everyone's moral character who has said similar things. I could give you a lot more examples, but they haven't and don't make a dent in the capitalist machine. It has adapted. The reason it's on topic is because it's just a special case of what that machine sells to everyone regardless of consequences. Instagram and TikTok "influencers" have contributed massively to anxiety and depression of teenage girls, but also promote dressing and acting in ways their parents and grandparents never could. Miley Cyrus was the "voice of a generation", a "good girl" promoted by "wholesome" Disney, then she had a coming-out with the record industry, where her biggest new talent was sticking her tongue out while naked and gripping a chain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My2FRPA3Gf8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My2FRPA3Gf8 Sex sells and nudity grabs headlines on billboards: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2157969/Rihanna-nude-billboard-centre-attention-New-Yorks-Times-Square.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2157969/Rihann... It tells women to "lean in" and work 10 hours a day instead of telling both men and women to "lean out" and spend time with their family. Sometimes it even becomes a parody of itself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNzXze5Yza8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNzXze5Yza8 Again, there doesn't need to be a conspiracy behind it (as Kanye believes) it's just what the market (and "the algorithm") selects for. Look at your news, it's all become click-bait that makes ADULTS (whose brains are fully developed) into frothing-at-the-mouth rabid haters of the left, or the right, or whoever. It also radicalizes citizens into supporting destructive wars. Look at your social media. It has made you distracted at dinner, addicted like a pavlov's dog to notifications, using your phone 10 hours a day of screen time. If it can do that to adults, imagine what it can do to kids. This society overall tries to medicate people and put bandaids on real problems, like when both parents work 10 hour days, stick their kids in public schools and their parents into nursing homes, and everyone is medicated because everyone is depressed or not served well by the system.
- jessaustin 4y ago
  Again, there doesn't need to be a conspiracy behind it (as Kanye believes) it's just what the market (and "the algorithm") selects for. As C. Wright Mills wrote in The Power Elite, "To accept either view -- of all history as conspiracy or all history as drift -- is to relax the effort to understand the facts of power and the ways of the powerful." The precise form of our situation is not inevitable. Just as algorithms are written by people, so are laws and extortion notes. The tools that oppress us may be refashioned into others that free us. We must keep in mind that tools are nothing in themselves; they take on significance when used. I do agree "that machine sells to everyone". Perhaps it makes sense to compare the situation of teen girls to that of black families like you suggest, since there is a sizable overlap between these groups. Rather than despairing of all the awful media, however, would it be better to focus on better media? The Cosby Show was produced in the 1980s, but surely there are good things happening now? Not necessarily shows on television, which is itself the sort of machine we're discussing. I've heard good things about "Black Twitter"... Conservatism seems reasonable in the face of the issues you identify, but it's not, especially if you're following Milton Friedman on the minimum wage as you indicate above. The real minimum wage right now is barely half of the inflation-adjusted $12 it was in 1968. Had it kept pace with productivity as well as inflation, it would have been $22 by now. [0] Our enemies don't care about ideology. They happily wore the skins of Republicans before they wore the skins of Democrats, and it will be no trouble for them to switch again. The lockdown did harm teen girls, even if we can't prove it to the scientific satisfaction of thread parent. That's not even the really bad part. What they have done once, they can and will do again. When it is normal for children to plug into a device instead of going to public school, it will be easy for some asshole billionaires to arrange that the children will just plug into their "education" apps and all the money we used to waste on teachers instead can just go to collateral for some asshole billionaire personal lines of credit. After they've done away with teachers, the McKinsey consultants will start examining whether the children really need parents. After all, they don't need a home if they're plugged into their devices... But seriously, give Whitlock a listen, especially one of the episodes featuring Royce White. They are both better than Steven "A" Smith, in every respect. [0] https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/21/politics/minimum-wage-inflation-productivity/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/21/politics/minimum-wage-inflati...

EGreg 4y ago

I suppose the common thread is that they are all outspoken Black people, from different walks of life, who have all recognized that corrosive influences are coming from certain capitalist entertainment industries and contributing to cultural/moral degradation as a negative externality made in the name of profit. Cosby spent YEARS playing "America's dad" for the Black family, as did James Avery, Reginald VelJohnson and others. They provided a wholesome role model to look up to, of a married family man, who provides for his kids and teaches them manners and morals, as opposed to "role models" poppin bottles and bangin models that the rap industry provides. Misogynistic lyrics, racial slurs, materialistic lifestyles, sometimes even glorifying violence. What good does it do? If outsiders can't criticize it because it is "authentic Black expression", then it falls to Black voices to do so. And they do, increasingly. To try to combat moral / cultural degradation and restore family values takes both economic and cultural reform. This used to be the subject of Black sit coms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5D2RvIQwQE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5D2RvIQwQE And even CNN anchor Don Lemon used to OPENLY say stuff like this: https://www.cnn.com/videos/bestoftv/2013/07/27/nr-lemon-no-talking-points.cnn https://www.cnn.com/videos/bestoftv/2013/07/27/nr-lemon-no-t... So Steven A Smith said the same: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb4pEN3s7B8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb4pEN3s7B8 Deloris Tucker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr6gb1w72xA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr6gb1w72xA I mean, I think you're tilting at windmills here when you're going after everyone's moral character who has said similar things. I could give you a lot more examples, but they haven't and don't make a dent in the capitalist machine. It has adapted. The reason it's on topic is because it's just a special case of what that machine sells to everyone regardless of consequences. Instagram and TikTok "influencers" have contributed massively to anxiety and depression of teenage girls, but also promote dressing and acting in ways their parents and grandparents never could. Miley Cyrus was the "voice of a generation", a "good girl" promoted by "wholesome" Disney, then she had a coming-out with the record industry, where her biggest new talent was sticking her tongue out while naked and gripping a chain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My2FRPA3Gf8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My2FRPA3Gf8 Sex sells and nudity grabs headlines on billboards: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2157969/Rihanna-nude-billboard-centre-attention-New-Yorks-Times-Square.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2157969/Rihann... It tells women to "lean in" and work 10 hours a day instead of telling both men and women to "lean out" and spend time with their family. Sometimes it even becomes a parody of itself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNzXze5Yza8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNzXze5Yza8 Again, there doesn't need to be a conspiracy behind it (as Kanye believes) it's just what the market (and "the algorithm") selects for. Look at your news, it's all become click-bait that makes ADULTS (whose brains are fully developed) into frothing-at-the-mouth rabid haters of the left, or the right, or whoever. It also radicalizes citizens into supporting destructive wars. Look at your social media. It has made you distracted at dinner, addicted like a pavlov's dog to notifications, using your phone 10 hours a day of screen time. If it can do that to adults, imagine what it can do to kids. This society overall tries to medicate people and put bandaids on real problems, like when both parents work 10 hour days, stick their kids in public schools and their parents into nursing homes, and everyone is medicated because everyone is depressed or not served well by the system.

jessaustin 4y ago
Again, there doesn't need to be a conspiracy behind it (as Kanye believes) it's just what the market (and "the algorithm") selects for. As C. Wright Mills wrote in The Power Elite, "To accept either view -- of all history as conspiracy or all history as drift -- is to relax the effort to understand the facts of power and the ways of the powerful." The precise form of our situation is not inevitable. Just as algorithms are written by people, so are laws and extortion notes. The tools that oppress us may be refashioned into others that free us. We must keep in mind that tools are nothing in themselves; they take on significance when used. I do agree "that machine sells to everyone". Perhaps it makes sense to compare the situation of teen girls to that of black families like you suggest, since there is a sizable overlap between these groups. Rather than despairing of all the awful media, however, would it be better to focus on better media? The Cosby Show was produced in the 1980s, but surely there are good things happening now? Not necessarily shows on television, which is itself the sort of machine we're discussing. I've heard good things about "Black Twitter"... Conservatism seems reasonable in the face of the issues you identify, but it's not, especially if you're following Milton Friedman on the minimum wage as you indicate above. The real minimum wage right now is barely half of the inflation-adjusted $12 it was in 1968. Had it kept pace with productivity as well as inflation, it would have been $22 by now. [0] Our enemies don't care about ideology. They happily wore the skins of Republicans before they wore the skins of Democrats, and it will be no trouble for them to switch again. The lockdown did harm teen girls, even if we can't prove it to the scientific satisfaction of thread parent. That's not even the really bad part. What they have done once, they can and will do again. When it is normal for children to plug into a device instead of going to public school, it will be easy for some asshole billionaires to arrange that the children will just plug into their "education" apps and all the money we used to waste on teachers instead can just go to collateral for some asshole billionaire personal lines of credit. After they've done away with teachers, the McKinsey consultants will start examining whether the children really need parents. After all, they don't need a home if they're plugged into their devices... But seriously, give Whitlock a listen, especially one of the episodes featuring Royce White. They are both better than Steven "A" Smith, in every respect. [0] https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/21/politics/minimum-wage-inflation-productivity/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/21/politics/minimum-wage-inflati...