8 ms·

In my unasked-for opinion, he should absolutely give up on this project, and take a salaried job that'll let him support his family and not have to deal with th

In my unasked-for opinion, he should absolutely give up on this project, and take a salaried job that'll let him support his family and not have to deal with the entitlement issues and lack of perspective the community evidently has. If half of what's in this post is true, he's shown admirable restraint: I'd have burned it all down the first time someone got pissy about a free thing I gave them.

forevergreenyon 4y ago
[flagged]
robflynn 4y ago
The open source community can be wild sometimes. Back when I was still maintainer and lead dev for Gaim (not Pidgin), I would occasionally get downright hateful people e-mailing me for not implementing whatever feature they thought needed to be implemented, or not getting it implemented quickly enough. One guy managed to get ahold of my cell phone number somehow and called me at 4am to discuss "his ideas" with me for the project. I ended up having to change my number. Thankfully 95% of the people I interacted with in the community were great and were great, but that other 5% was rough.
- lelandfe 4y ago
  Old coworker of mine was/is(?) secretly the primary contributor to a a major console emulator. He revealed it to me only after working together for about 4 years. He keeps it incognito because the vitriol his alias receives from impassioned members of the community makes him afraid of getting doxxed. He showed me some of them. I don't blame him.
  - kodt 4y ago
    Those are 100% just people who want all their pirated games to work properly and have no technical interest in the emulator.
    - Lev1a 4y ago
      Obligatory "not all emulated games/software are pirated".
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Loved Gaim. Got a lot of good use out of it. Thanks a bunch for your work.
- EdwardDiego 4y ago
  <3 Gaim.
- runnerup 4y ago
  Gaim was an amazing help in my life at the time. Huge thank you.
ploxiln 4y ago
Yes. But I think it also shows a common misunderstanding of "open source" (and even "free software"). What he did was incredibly valuable to a huge number of successful people and corporations. But no one owes him anything. That's the point of open source. If they did owe him something, they wouldn't have used it. They used it because it was great, it was established/known, it was available with no strings attached whatsoever. Again, that's the point, that's why it's popular. But also, he owes them nothing. He doesn't have to keep maintaining the most comprehensive, up-to-date, and flexible package, as a full-time job, for free. He could could have just stopped after his first couple years where it was an inherently fulfilling passion project, he could just put in a couple hours a week, whatever. People would make do, it would still be quite valuable for a lot of people for a long time. Or those other projects and companies would come up with an more up-to-date alternative when really needed. You really don't have to be a martyr, and we don't have to "give up on open source" or whatever. You can just make stuff available that you wanted to do anyway. Sometimes it leads to bigger opportunities, sometimes (usually?) not. Don't slave away and sacrifice your personal life because of what you think you deserve if you do, that's not going to materialize that way. Remember this is all stuff just offered up with NO WARRANTY, NOT EVEN FITNESS FOR PURPOSE etc. And in practice it's super super valuable that way. Even without you sacrificing yourself. Let companies spend the big bucks on it, just work on what's fun in your free time.
- EdwardDiego 4y ago
  > But no one owes him anything. I strongly disagree. Only because so many people feel that he owes them something.
  - ebjaas_2022 4y ago
    It's the nature of most types of volunteering work. If you sign up to be the conductor of your local choir, you have the same thing. People start expecting you to do stuff. If you're going to be in that role, as ploxiln says, you need to be OK with that part of it. You have to be OK with the thanklessness of the task, and you have to seek your rewards elsewhere. Still, I feel very sorry for zloirock, and I hope that he gets some kind of compensation for his work, at least enough to get his life back together.
armini 4y ago
Maintainers like Denis shouldn't be asking for donations, they should be sponsored the same way Nike sponsors athletes. If you're a burnt out open source maintainer or know someone who is, I'd love to talk to you. My job is to help create awareness about the issue with companies that depend on your package. I reached out to Denis because we all know he deserves better. Appreciate any leads you could additionally share with me.
- pabs3 4y ago
  Edit: I see you work for thanks.dev, which doesn't seem like it would cover the projects I mention below. I leave my original comment in case anyone else is interested in sponsoring the things I mention. I'd like to find sponsors for a few non-web-related projects. In particular the Linux USB Gadgets userspace stack (libusbgx/gt/gadgetd/etc), a library for the Microsoft PST email format (libpst) and a tool for running linters/etc (check-all-the-things). Happy to chat about these over email. https://github.com/linux-usb-gadgets https://github.com/linux-usb-gadgets https://github.com/pst-format/libpst https://github.com/pst-format/libpst https://github.com/collab-qa/check-all-the-things https://github.com/collab-qa/check-all-the-things
  - armini 4y ago
    Thanks Paul, yes I do work for thanks.dev & non-web-projects are on our roadmap. Let me know if you’d like to be a early pilot user when we’re ready for testing…
    - pabs3 4y ago
      I don't use CSS/JS capable browsers, so this doesn't seem feasible unless you switch your tech stacks.
- slowmotiony 4y ago
  I don't know, I don't think Nike will sponsor athletes who, despite the war, returned to Russia solely due to better financial prospects.
kkoste 4y ago
> I'd have burned it all down the first time someone got pissy about a free thing I Sadly this is the state of open source projects. People feeling entitled and doing nothing but complain. It's sad really because negative compacts often have a more lasting impact than positive ones.
toyg 4y ago
> he should absolutely give up on this project Nah, he should get creative. 1. Silently change the license to GPL. 2. Wait a few billion downloads. 3. Meticulously sue one company after the other.

forevergreenyon 4y ago

[flagged]

robflynn 4y ago

The open source community can be wild sometimes. Back when I was still maintainer and lead dev for Gaim (not Pidgin), I would occasionally get downright hateful people e-mailing me for not implementing whatever feature they thought needed to be implemented, or not getting it implemented quickly enough. One guy managed to get ahold of my cell phone number somehow and called me at 4am to discuss "his ideas" with me for the project. I ended up having to change my number. Thankfully 95% of the people I interacted with in the community were great and were great, but that other 5% was rough.

lelandfe 4y ago
Old coworker of mine was/is(?) secretly the primary contributor to a a major console emulator. He revealed it to me only after working together for about 4 years. He keeps it incognito because the vitriol his alias receives from impassioned members of the community makes him afraid of getting doxxed. He showed me some of them. I don't blame him.
- kodt 4y ago
  Those are 100% just people who want all their pirated games to work properly and have no technical interest in the emulator.
  - Lev1a 4y ago
    Obligatory "not all emulated games/software are pirated".
yamtaddle 4y ago
Loved Gaim. Got a lot of good use out of it. Thanks a bunch for your work.
EdwardDiego 4y ago
<3 Gaim.
runnerup 4y ago
Gaim was an amazing help in my life at the time. Huge thank you.

ploxiln 4y ago

Yes. But I think it also shows a common misunderstanding of "open source" (and even "free software"). What he did was incredibly valuable to a huge number of successful people and corporations. But no one owes him anything. That's the point of open source. If they did owe him something, they wouldn't have used it. They used it because it was great, it was established/known, it was available with no strings attached whatsoever. Again, that's the point, that's why it's popular. But also, he owes them nothing. He doesn't have to keep maintaining the most comprehensive, up-to-date, and flexible package, as a full-time job, for free. He could could have just stopped after his first couple years where it was an inherently fulfilling passion project, he could just put in a couple hours a week, whatever. People would make do, it would still be quite valuable for a lot of people for a long time. Or those other projects and companies would come up with an more up-to-date alternative when really needed. You really don't have to be a martyr, and we don't have to "give up on open source" or whatever. You can just make stuff available that you wanted to do anyway. Sometimes it leads to bigger opportunities, sometimes (usually?) not. Don't slave away and sacrifice your personal life because of what you think you deserve if you do, that's not going to materialize that way. Remember this is all stuff just offered up with NO WARRANTY, NOT EVEN FITNESS FOR PURPOSE etc. And in practice it's super super valuable that way. Even without you sacrificing yourself. Let companies spend the big bucks on it, just work on what's fun in your free time.

EdwardDiego 4y ago
> But no one owes him anything. I strongly disagree. Only because so many people feel that he owes them something.
- ebjaas_2022 4y ago
  It's the nature of most types of volunteering work. If you sign up to be the conductor of your local choir, you have the same thing. People start expecting you to do stuff. If you're going to be in that role, as ploxiln says, you need to be OK with that part of it. You have to be OK with the thanklessness of the task, and you have to seek your rewards elsewhere. Still, I feel very sorry for zloirock, and I hope that he gets some kind of compensation for his work, at least enough to get his life back together.

armini 4y ago

Maintainers like Denis shouldn't be asking for donations, they should be sponsored the same way Nike sponsors athletes. If you're a burnt out open source maintainer or know someone who is, I'd love to talk to you. My job is to help create awareness about the issue with companies that depend on your package. I reached out to Denis because we all know he deserves better. Appreciate any leads you could additionally share with me.

pabs3 4y ago
Edit: I see you work for thanks.dev, which doesn't seem like it would cover the projects I mention below. I leave my original comment in case anyone else is interested in sponsoring the things I mention. I'd like to find sponsors for a few non-web-related projects. In particular the Linux USB Gadgets userspace stack (libusbgx/gt/gadgetd/etc), a library for the Microsoft PST email format (libpst) and a tool for running linters/etc (check-all-the-things). Happy to chat about these over email. https://github.com/linux-usb-gadgets https://github.com/linux-usb-gadgets https://github.com/pst-format/libpst https://github.com/pst-format/libpst https://github.com/collab-qa/check-all-the-things https://github.com/collab-qa/check-all-the-things
- armini 4y ago
  Thanks Paul, yes I do work for thanks.dev & non-web-projects are on our roadmap. Let me know if you’d like to be a early pilot user when we’re ready for testing…
  - pabs3 4y ago
    I don't use CSS/JS capable browsers, so this doesn't seem feasible unless you switch your tech stacks.
slowmotiony 4y ago
I don't know, I don't think Nike will sponsor athletes who, despite the war, returned to Russia solely due to better financial prospects.

kkoste 4y ago

> I'd have burned it all down the first time someone got pissy about a free thing I Sadly this is the state of open source projects. People feeling entitled and doing nothing but complain. It's sad really because negative compacts often have a more lasting impact than positive ones.

toyg 4y ago

> he should absolutely give up on this project Nah, he should get creative. 1. Silently change the license to GPL. 2. Wait a few billion downloads. 3. Meticulously sue one company after the other.