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And this comment is a symptom of the lack of ethics training in the profession: if critiquing technology in your area of expertise is deemed obstructionist and

And this comment is a symptom of the lack of ethics training in the profession: if critiquing technology in your area of expertise is deemed obstructionist and "not research"--if the people with the expertise can't bring that expertise to bear in putting a critical eye on new technologies--how can you ever expect the industry to become more responsible and ethically mature? Criticism is a form of scholarship, and a vitally important one.

danielmarkbruce 4y ago
The comment is on the volume.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- BaseballPhysics 4y ago
  No, the comment is claiming that if they're engaging in a high volume of critique then they're not engaging in scholarship as an AI researcher. My point is that's false.
  - danielmarkbruce 4y ago
    There are only 24 hrs in a day. If a profession generally requires one to do a, b and c to be considered "doing" the profession, then I can't just do a all day long without people questioning me. No one is suggesting a isn't part of the job when they question me. Put another way - if I claim to be engaged in X research, but all I do is read papers on X and critique them, it's reasonable for one to question the use of my time as a researcher.
YeGoblynQueenne 4y ago
More to the point, criticism of others' work is part of the job description of a researcher. I guess people don't realise that, but what happens during peer review is exactly that: criticism. Unpitiable, unrelenting, and, hopefully, constructive and such that it helps the poor target of it improve their work. Speaking from experience, it is not something that one is prepared to receive. School, university, work- I don't think anything prepares you for the sensation of someone treading roughshod over your hard work, and your dreams. It's like a stab through the heart. A stab in the back. But, you know. You get better. And you learn, hopefully, to not be too harsh, and to be constructive, yourself. Anyway, science is a debate and there's no debate without disagreement. I don't reckon people really understand how much what Gary Marcus is doing is necessary for scientific progress. And it's hugely disappointing to see the constant attacks against him, against his person and his character.

danielmarkbruce 4y ago

The comment is on the volume.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
BaseballPhysics 4y ago
No, the comment is claiming that if they're engaging in a high volume of critique then they're not engaging in scholarship as an AI researcher. My point is that's false.
- danielmarkbruce 4y ago
  There are only 24 hrs in a day. If a profession generally requires one to do a, b and c to be considered "doing" the profession, then I can't just do a all day long without people questioning me. No one is suggesting a isn't part of the job when they question me. Put another way - if I claim to be engaged in X research, but all I do is read papers on X and critique them, it's reasonable for one to question the use of my time as a researcher.

YeGoblynQueenne 4y ago

More to the point, criticism of others' work is part of the job description of a researcher. I guess people don't realise that, but what happens during peer review is exactly that: criticism. Unpitiable, unrelenting, and, hopefully, constructive and such that it helps the poor target of it improve their work. Speaking from experience, it is not something that one is prepared to receive. School, university, work- I don't think anything prepares you for the sensation of someone treading roughshod over your hard work, and your dreams. It's like a stab through the heart. A stab in the back. But, you know. You get better. And you learn, hopefully, to not be too harsh, and to be constructive, yourself. Anyway, science is a debate and there's no debate without disagreement. I don't reckon people really understand how much what Gary Marcus is doing is necessary for scientific progress. And it's hugely disappointing to see the constant attacks against him, against his person and his character.