4 ms·

> My guidance counseler suggested I dont attend college, just a community college (despite the fact that I got admitted to a decent state school) What's wrong

> My guidance counseler suggested I dont attend college, just a community college (despite the fact that I got admitted to a decent state school) What's wrong with guidance counselors in American high schools? Why do I keep hearing about them giving kids incredibly stupid advice?

bigbillheck 4y ago
I think I talked to guidance counselors twice during my entire high school career, and neither time came away satisfied, but had friends who were in and out of their offices on the regular without complaint beyond the usual ones you'd expect from teenage boys.
screye 4y ago
My cynical take is that someone who cannot figure out what career to be in themselves ends up a guidance counselor. The job isn't well paid. And anyone who can do large scale talent identification will likely be paid a lot more in the corporate world. So you end up with the least competent ones in public schools.
vlunkr 4y ago
Selection bias?
seeEllArr 4y ago
[dead]
xypage 4y ago
Because a guidance counselor doing a good job is really boring, they ask you where you want to go to school, get you links to those applications, and maybe walk you through the application/point you to a campus resource that'll proofread your essays before you submit them. None of these are particularly note worthy, no one's going to go home and write about that experience, so you don't hear about it. That's what my counselor did, they got me fee waivers too so I didn't have to pay a cent for any of my applications, it's just not something I raced to write about, like I would've if they told me I shouldn't go to college and then I did well or something.
- geoduck14 4y ago
  I agree. My guidance counselor had 2 3-ring binders FULL of schools that fit some criteria I had, but were also aligned to my disabilities. My mom and I spent ~2 hours with the counselor looking through the schools and applying. It was pretty boring. They also arranged for schools to come and talk to us about them. That was rad because we got to skip class
- clint 4y ago
  I'm often surprised that so many folks seemed to have "Guidance Counselors" at their schools. I went to a public science and technology magnet school in Kansas during the 90s and I don't think I ever saw a guidance counselor ever.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - astrange 4y ago
    I slept through most of high school because of the long commute, but vaguely remember a counselor coming around with a computerized career recommender at our magnet school, which told me to become a telecom linesmen because I liked computers.
- plorkyeran 4y ago
  Yep, my HS guidance counselor gave me some great advice. I went to a school she strongly recommended for me and it was a good fit for exactly the reasons she said it would be. This isn't a very interesting story so I think this is literally the first time I've ever mentioned it anywhere in the nearly 20 years since then.
mjhay 4y ago
They have a strong tendency to steer high-performing students from lower-income families away from prestigious schools, despite the fact that those are often cheaper with scholarships.
kcplate 4y ago
I am not sure it’s necessarily bad advice in this case—community college or trade school route—I would consider that pretty good general advice for an underperforming but intelligent teen. However, I do know firsthand from an experience involving my son’s guidance counselor providing remarkably bad advice that at times the guidance isn’t beneficial to the teen, but more to the school.
hd95489 4y ago
Yeah I mean the guidance counselor is at best a failed therapist so why would you expect good advice
Merad 4y ago
Why do you think this was stupid advice? More than a few "normal" kids go off to college and crash and burn or otherwise fail spectacularly because they aren't prepared to be on their own. It sounds totally reasonable to suggest that a kid struggling with issues like the GP might consider community college so they can stay around family support structures, continue seeing the same doctors or therapists, etc.
musicale 4y ago
> just a community college Community colleges are the best deal in higher education, and often have faculty who are interested in teaching rather than research.
yamtaddle 4y ago
Most of them are really bad at their jobs, but the pay kinda sucks, so that's not likely to improve. And with all the glamour of telling burn-outs that they're not getting into Harvard all day long, and the low pay, you also get to be point person when a kid offs themselves or dies in a car wreck. Fun! You get what you pay for, and the pay's low. Also, the job sucks. That's a recipe for terrible service. [EDIT] Incidentally, you want consistently-great counselors, as far as the college planning side goes? Elite prep schools. Half of what you're paying for is an expert with insider knowledge & contacts to ensure your kid gets into the best possible school they can. They treat the position—at least as far as that side of it goes—very seriously, when hiring.
giantg2 4y ago
"What's wrong with guidance counselors in American high schools? Why do I keep hearing about them giving kids incredibly stupid advice?" Because most of them couldn't get a "real" job. If they could they'd be making more money somewhere else. (yes, there are some great people doing the job for ideological reasons too)
TylerE 4y ago
That is excellent advice in many states. For instance, here in NC you can do the first 2 years of almost any undergrad degree (all the basic non-subject matter stuff) for a fraction of the cost, and every single credit transfers. Also, much much smaller classes.
- TylerE 4y ago
  Also also: generally better teachers, becaus they are there because they actually want to teach - many are retired former professionals. Whereas many college professors want to do research and do the academia dance, often fobbing off much of the actual teaching to TAs and the like.
chasd00 4y ago
> Why do I keep hearing about them giving kids incredibly stupid advice? most people with insight on good advice do not become high school guidance counselors. why would they?

bigbillheck 4y ago

I think I talked to guidance counselors twice during my entire high school career, and neither time came away satisfied, but had friends who were in and out of their offices on the regular without complaint beyond the usual ones you'd expect from teenage boys.

screye 4y ago

My cynical take is that someone who cannot figure out what career to be in themselves ends up a guidance counselor. The job isn't well paid. And anyone who can do large scale talent identification will likely be paid a lot more in the corporate world. So you end up with the least competent ones in public schools.

vlunkr 4y ago

Selection bias?

seeEllArr 4y ago

[dead]

xypage 4y ago

Because a guidance counselor doing a good job is really boring, they ask you where you want to go to school, get you links to those applications, and maybe walk you through the application/point you to a campus resource that'll proofread your essays before you submit them. None of these are particularly note worthy, no one's going to go home and write about that experience, so you don't hear about it. That's what my counselor did, they got me fee waivers too so I didn't have to pay a cent for any of my applications, it's just not something I raced to write about, like I would've if they told me I shouldn't go to college and then I did well or something.

geoduck14 4y ago
I agree. My guidance counselor had 2 3-ring binders FULL of schools that fit some criteria I had, but were also aligned to my disabilities. My mom and I spent ~2 hours with the counselor looking through the schools and applying. It was pretty boring. They also arranged for schools to come and talk to us about them. That was rad because we got to skip class
clint 4y ago
I'm often surprised that so many folks seemed to have "Guidance Counselors" at their schools. I went to a public science and technology magnet school in Kansas during the 90s and I don't think I ever saw a guidance counselor ever.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- astrange 4y ago
  I slept through most of high school because of the long commute, but vaguely remember a counselor coming around with a computerized career recommender at our magnet school, which told me to become a telecom linesmen because I liked computers.
plorkyeran 4y ago
Yep, my HS guidance counselor gave me some great advice. I went to a school she strongly recommended for me and it was a good fit for exactly the reasons she said it would be. This isn't a very interesting story so I think this is literally the first time I've ever mentioned it anywhere in the nearly 20 years since then.

mjhay 4y ago

They have a strong tendency to steer high-performing students from lower-income families away from prestigious schools, despite the fact that those are often cheaper with scholarships.

kcplate 4y ago

I am not sure it’s necessarily bad advice in this case—community college or trade school route—I would consider that pretty good general advice for an underperforming but intelligent teen. However, I do know firsthand from an experience involving my son’s guidance counselor providing remarkably bad advice that at times the guidance isn’t beneficial to the teen, but more to the school.

hd95489 4y ago

Yeah I mean the guidance counselor is at best a failed therapist so why would you expect good advice

Merad 4y ago

Why do you think this was stupid advice? More than a few "normal" kids go off to college and crash and burn or otherwise fail spectacularly because they aren't prepared to be on their own. It sounds totally reasonable to suggest that a kid struggling with issues like the GP might consider community college so they can stay around family support structures, continue seeing the same doctors or therapists, etc.

musicale 4y ago

> just a community college Community colleges are the best deal in higher education, and often have faculty who are interested in teaching rather than research.

yamtaddle 4y ago

Most of them are really bad at their jobs, but the pay kinda sucks, so that's not likely to improve. And with all the glamour of telling burn-outs that they're not getting into Harvard all day long, and the low pay, you also get to be point person when a kid offs themselves or dies in a car wreck. Fun! You get what you pay for, and the pay's low. Also, the job sucks. That's a recipe for terrible service. [EDIT] Incidentally, you want consistently-great counselors, as far as the college planning side goes? Elite prep schools. Half of what you're paying for is an expert with insider knowledge & contacts to ensure your kid gets into the best possible school they can. They treat the position—at least as far as that side of it goes—very seriously, when hiring.

giantg2 4y ago

"What's wrong with guidance counselors in American high schools? Why do I keep hearing about them giving kids incredibly stupid advice?" Because most of them couldn't get a "real" job. If they could they'd be making more money somewhere else. (yes, there are some great people doing the job for ideological reasons too)

TylerE 4y ago

That is excellent advice in many states. For instance, here in NC you can do the first 2 years of almost any undergrad degree (all the basic non-subject matter stuff) for a fraction of the cost, and every single credit transfers. Also, much much smaller classes.

TylerE 4y ago
Also also: generally better teachers, becaus they are there because they actually want to teach - many are retired former professionals. Whereas many college professors want to do research and do the academia dance, often fobbing off much of the actual teaching to TAs and the like.

chasd00 4y ago

> Why do I keep hearing about them giving kids incredibly stupid advice? most people with insight on good advice do not become high school guidance counselors. why would they?