4 ms·

My guess is that a lot of this is due to redefining "violence and trauma" and emphasizing victimhood. If you're constantly told you're oppressed and being subje

My guess is that a lot of this is due to redefining "violence and trauma" and emphasizing victimhood. If you're constantly told you're oppressed and being subjected to "violence" then you're more likely to react accordingly. A lot of reality is subjective, especially as it relates to happiness or sadness.

SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
This isn’t really a conclusion backed by what we know. You don’t traumatize people by telling them they have been traumatized. That’s just not how trauma works. Trauma happens to people regardless of whether or not they believe they’re traumatized: this is how we can study that beating your kids results in statistically worse outcomes even though I’m sure the parents told the kids multiple times that their beatings were justified and not traumatic. If anything maybe these statistics are so alarming is because we as a society didn’t categorize abuse as abuse until recently. Consider that raping one’s wife was legal until recently. Beating children was considered normal until a generation or so ago. Trying to force gay people to convert to straight was the medically condoned treatment. All sorts of abhorrent behaviors were normalized and people simply denied the harm it was causing.
- lostmsu 4y ago
  > Trauma happens to people regardless of whether or not they believe they’re traumatized I suppose the question is should we call any painful learning experience 'a trauma'?
  - SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
    No, we have a definition of psychological trauma. Psychological trauma describes a complex set of degenerated capacities after experiencing a shock or perceived threat particularly to one’s or loved one’s life. You can actually measure trauma by the degeneration of cognitive skills, adaptability, etc. I know we’re so blasé about trauma these days, so it sounds easy to dismiss it as woo. But consider again that maybe it’s only now that society is good enough that we can even conceive of measuring psychological damage like it isn’t normal. (It used to be normal for women to die of infection post childbirth… until it turns out this one weird guy with some germ theory woo washed his hands! And he was seeing this germ woo everywhere!)
    - lostmsu 4y ago
      There's a huge difference between mortality of childbirth and psychological trauma. The later does not seem to have significant enough research to support your point of view. I found a few papers, and they all seem to suffer from small samples sizes (under 100) and methodological issues (measure cognitive skills, and only use income as a confounder, rather than parent's cognitive skills, which are highly hereditary).
      - SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
        Not sure what studies you are finding, but adverse childhood experiences have studies with an n of over 10,000 people. We can directly correlate specific traumatic events to lifetime outcomes and mental illness.
        lostmsu 4y ago
        So can you share one?
- lostmsu 4y ago
  > Consider that raping one’s wife was legal until recently I actually woke up to that one just recently. Turns out in WA lack of verbal consent from your wife could leave one with up to 5 years in prison if your relationship goes haywire and the wife turns vengeful for whatever reasons (which is not uncommon). Getting to know that - have fun having sex if you are even slightly insecure about your relationship. From reading that law even obtaining a written advance consent from your own wife before each intercourse won't guarantee you won't land in prison because any consent is revocable at any moment by exhibiting vague elusive behavior. And even if there's no evidence apart from the partner's word, just the chance of getting on trial does not sound fun at all. That's not to mention that any consent is null while under alcohol influence. So better not to have sex when your partner is drunk (regardless if you're drunk too) even if you've been married for many years.

SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago

This isn’t really a conclusion backed by what we know. You don’t traumatize people by telling them they have been traumatized. That’s just not how trauma works. Trauma happens to people regardless of whether or not they believe they’re traumatized: this is how we can study that beating your kids results in statistically worse outcomes even though I’m sure the parents told the kids multiple times that their beatings were justified and not traumatic. If anything maybe these statistics are so alarming is because we as a society didn’t categorize abuse as abuse until recently. Consider that raping one’s wife was legal until recently. Beating children was considered normal until a generation or so ago. Trying to force gay people to convert to straight was the medically condoned treatment. All sorts of abhorrent behaviors were normalized and people simply denied the harm it was causing.

lostmsu 4y ago
> Trauma happens to people regardless of whether or not they believe they’re traumatized I suppose the question is should we call any painful learning experience 'a trauma'?
- SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
  No, we have a definition of psychological trauma. Psychological trauma describes a complex set of degenerated capacities after experiencing a shock or perceived threat particularly to one’s or loved one’s life. You can actually measure trauma by the degeneration of cognitive skills, adaptability, etc. I know we’re so blasé about trauma these days, so it sounds easy to dismiss it as woo. But consider again that maybe it’s only now that society is good enough that we can even conceive of measuring psychological damage like it isn’t normal. (It used to be normal for women to die of infection post childbirth… until it turns out this one weird guy with some germ theory woo washed his hands! And he was seeing this germ woo everywhere!)
  - lostmsu 4y ago
    There's a huge difference between mortality of childbirth and psychological trauma. The later does not seem to have significant enough research to support your point of view. I found a few papers, and they all seem to suffer from small samples sizes (under 100) and methodological issues (measure cognitive skills, and only use income as a confounder, rather than parent's cognitive skills, which are highly hereditary).
    - SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
      Not sure what studies you are finding, but adverse childhood experiences have studies with an n of over 10,000 people. We can directly correlate specific traumatic events to lifetime outcomes and mental illness.
      - lostmsu 4y ago
        So can you share one?
lostmsu 4y ago
> Consider that raping one’s wife was legal until recently I actually woke up to that one just recently. Turns out in WA lack of verbal consent from your wife could leave one with up to 5 years in prison if your relationship goes haywire and the wife turns vengeful for whatever reasons (which is not uncommon). Getting to know that - have fun having sex if you are even slightly insecure about your relationship. From reading that law even obtaining a written advance consent from your own wife before each intercourse won't guarantee you won't land in prison because any consent is revocable at any moment by exhibiting vague elusive behavior. And even if there's no evidence apart from the partner's word, just the chance of getting on trial does not sound fun at all. That's not to mention that any consent is null while under alcohol influence. So better not to have sex when your partner is drunk (regardless if you're drunk too) even if you've been married for many years.