4 ms·

An illiberal democracy can't be a true democracy. If power can control what news and data you get, showing only positive ones, you won't really be able to judge

An illiberal democracy can't be a true democracy. If power can control what news and data you get, showing only positive ones, you won't really be able to judge their administration skills. If so, elections will be unjust and unfair. Countries like India and Turkey can't be really considered as true democracies at the moment, people have no more power over their governments.

throwawayxx123 4y ago
India is okay. We have better democracy than both UK and USA.
- davoneus 4y ago
  Hell, India's democracy damn well should be; it had a chance to learn from the US and others mistakes. That said, Indian democracy is a pale imitation to post WW2 European democracies.
  - throwawayxx123 4y ago
    Very true!
yutijke 4y ago
Unlike the two-party democracy of US, India has a multitude of political parties holding power at the state level. Many of these parties (AAP, TMC, DMK, etc) whip BJP's arse in state elections. There are talks of a third party AAP gaining enough support to contest at a National level in the future. There has been no evidence of BJP rigging National or state elections until now. In fact parties like TMC which progressive media often hail for opposing BJP have been found to indulge in electoral violence and rigging [1]. These parties run unhindered in what english media essentially calls the Nazi regime of Modi. Where is the evidence for BJP winning due to suppressing political parties? A political party or politician who you don't like being elected (in free and fair elections) does not qualify. [1] https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/kolkata/tmc-accused-of-rigging-in-siliguri-rural-elections-municipal-bypolls-7993060/ https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/kolkata/tmc-accused... EDIT: sidenote: Electoral violence seems to mainly be an issue in West Bengal. Other states have a lot of issues but the scale of gratuitous bloodshed that follows elections is a unique characteristic of the state. That no Indian government past or current has tackled this issue, only speaks for the inability of the Indian state to effectively project hard power.
- lostmsu 4y ago
  > Unlike the two-party democracy of US, India has a multitude of political parties holding power at the state level. Many of these parties (AAP, TMC, DMK, etc) whip BJP's arse in state elections. There are talks of a third party AAP gaining enough support to contest at a National level in the future. This is basically the state in Russia. I would not call Russia a democracy therefore your argument does not convince me India is one either. The parent is correct. Control over media, and jailing witness who implicates top government employees is exactly what happened in Russia just before the invasion.
  - yutijke 4y ago
    If there is a large scale pogrom of journalists who criticise the government then there would be a chilling effect on critical coverage of the government. Large scale protests wouldn't exist and wouldn't be successful. Your statement does not jibe well with the lived reality of most Indians. We have plenty of access to critical coverage of the ruling party and its leader. Plenty of journalists are living their lives, paying rent and venting out their frustrations against the government on twitter without being arrested. A sample of Indian publications that are critical of BJP: https://www.deccanherald.com/national/national-politics/govt-shows-56-inch-chest-to-farmers-but-it-becomes-056-inch-before-china-sanjay-singh-1173730.html https://www.deccanherald.com/national/national-politics/govt... https://caravanmagazine.in/politics/hindutva-pop-hate https://caravanmagazine.in/politics/hindutva-pop-hate https://www.newslaundry.com/2022/12/24/aaj-tak-and-india-tv-air-bjp-promotional-content-as-news https://www.newslaundry.com/2022/12/24/aaj-tak-and-india-tv-... https://thewire.in/politics/twitter-amit-malviya-bjp-it-cell-manipulation https://thewire.in/politics/twitter-amit-malviya-bjp-it-cell... https://thewire.in/politics/if-rahul-gandhi-were-really-irrelevant-the-bjp-wouldnt-need-to-attack-him-so https://thewire.in/politics/if-rahul-gandhi-were-really-irre... https://www.ndtv.com/opinion/bjp-accused-of-using-app-tek-fog-to-target-intimidate-critics-2705566 https://www.ndtv.com/opinion/bjp-accused-of-using-app-tek-fo... and https://restofworld.org/2022/the-wire-vs-meta-india/ https://restofworld.org/2022/the-wire-vs-meta-india/ - This bit of critical journalism was found to be outright creative writing. But since you Anglos don't trust Indians on how their own country works maybe check out Alex Stamos of the Stanford Cyber Policy Center on this piece of news. I couldn't care less about the guy but maybe you will give his words weight. The reason I am giving this example is because this is a clear cut example of journalists publishing literal fake news critical of the governement and going about their lives without imprisonment and consequences. Time to time a corrupt politician tries to throw around their weight and gets people arrested, but our legal system typically strikes down the case. This is a problem with every political party in India but we don't have mass imprisonment of journalists critical of BJP as some publications may want you to think.

throwawayxx123 4y ago

India is okay. We have better democracy than both UK and USA.

davoneus 4y ago
Hell, India's democracy damn well should be; it had a chance to learn from the US and others mistakes. That said, Indian democracy is a pale imitation to post WW2 European democracies.
- throwawayxx123 4y ago
  Very true!

yutijke 4y ago

Unlike the two-party democracy of US, India has a multitude of political parties holding power at the state level. Many of these parties (AAP, TMC, DMK, etc) whip BJP's arse in state elections. There are talks of a third party AAP gaining enough support to contest at a National level in the future. There has been no evidence of BJP rigging National or state elections until now. In fact parties like TMC which progressive media often hail for opposing BJP have been found to indulge in electoral violence and rigging [1]. These parties run unhindered in what english media essentially calls the Nazi regime of Modi. Where is the evidence for BJP winning due to suppressing political parties? A political party or politician who you don't like being elected (in free and fair elections) does not qualify. [1] https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/kolkata/tmc-accused-of-rigging-in-siliguri-rural-elections-municipal-bypolls-7993060/ https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/kolkata/tmc-accused... EDIT: sidenote: Electoral violence seems to mainly be an issue in West Bengal. Other states have a lot of issues but the scale of gratuitous bloodshed that follows elections is a unique characteristic of the state. That no Indian government past or current has tackled this issue, only speaks for the inability of the Indian state to effectively project hard power.

lostmsu 4y ago
> Unlike the two-party democracy of US, India has a multitude of political parties holding power at the state level. Many of these parties (AAP, TMC, DMK, etc) whip BJP's arse in state elections. There are talks of a third party AAP gaining enough support to contest at a National level in the future. This is basically the state in Russia. I would not call Russia a democracy therefore your argument does not convince me India is one either. The parent is correct. Control over media, and jailing witness who implicates top government employees is exactly what happened in Russia just before the invasion.
- yutijke 4y ago
  If there is a large scale pogrom of journalists who criticise the government then there would be a chilling effect on critical coverage of the government. Large scale protests wouldn't exist and wouldn't be successful. Your statement does not jibe well with the lived reality of most Indians. We have plenty of access to critical coverage of the ruling party and its leader. Plenty of journalists are living their lives, paying rent and venting out their frustrations against the government on twitter without being arrested. A sample of Indian publications that are critical of BJP: https://www.deccanherald.com/national/national-politics/govt-shows-56-inch-chest-to-farmers-but-it-becomes-056-inch-before-china-sanjay-singh-1173730.html https://www.deccanherald.com/national/national-politics/govt... https://caravanmagazine.in/politics/hindutva-pop-hate https://caravanmagazine.in/politics/hindutva-pop-hate https://www.newslaundry.com/2022/12/24/aaj-tak-and-india-tv-air-bjp-promotional-content-as-news https://www.newslaundry.com/2022/12/24/aaj-tak-and-india-tv-... https://thewire.in/politics/twitter-amit-malviya-bjp-it-cell-manipulation https://thewire.in/politics/twitter-amit-malviya-bjp-it-cell... https://thewire.in/politics/if-rahul-gandhi-were-really-irrelevant-the-bjp-wouldnt-need-to-attack-him-so https://thewire.in/politics/if-rahul-gandhi-were-really-irre... https://www.ndtv.com/opinion/bjp-accused-of-using-app-tek-fog-to-target-intimidate-critics-2705566 https://www.ndtv.com/opinion/bjp-accused-of-using-app-tek-fo... and https://restofworld.org/2022/the-wire-vs-meta-india/ https://restofworld.org/2022/the-wire-vs-meta-india/ - This bit of critical journalism was found to be outright creative writing. But since you Anglos don't trust Indians on how their own country works maybe check out Alex Stamos of the Stanford Cyber Policy Center on this piece of news. I couldn't care less about the guy but maybe you will give his words weight. The reason I am giving this example is because this is a clear cut example of journalists publishing literal fake news critical of the governement and going about their lives without imprisonment and consequences. Time to time a corrupt politician tries to throw around their weight and gets people arrested, but our legal system typically strikes down the case. This is a problem with every political party in India but we don't have mass imprisonment of journalists critical of BJP as some publications may want you to think.