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Clojure fans seem quite taken to hyperbole. If the language is such a "joy", "ultra-productive" etc I would have expected after such a long period of existence

Clojure fans seem quite taken to hyperbole. If the language is such a "joy", "ultra-productive" etc I would have expected after such a long period of existence some major open source project to be showing off what the language attributes allow you to do. Happy to stand corrected if there is such a slam-dunk showcase that I've missed, I am actually interested to dig into clojure, if nothing else as a way to deepen my understanding of functional programming.

maxfurman 4y ago
There is something about the language and/or community that leads folks to build their own X instead of collaborating on a common open-source version of X. Perhaps the lisp learning curve is high enough to dissuade those who want to contribute to a project but don't yet know Clojure?
- ilkhan4 4y ago
  I have a pet theory that it's because it's too easy to write code in. I think there needs to be just enough pain with a language or library that it becomes worthwhile to allow someone else to write X and just deal with it being imperfect if it still solves your problem.
  - ballpark 4y ago
    too easy and too fun. Also, to anyone interested in this problem, look for the Worse is Better paper
doubleg 4y ago
To name a few: https://github.com/xtdb/xtdb https://github.com/xtdb/xtdb, https://github.com/nextjournal/clerk https://github.com/nextjournal/clerk, https://github.com/penpot/penpot https://github.com/penpot/penpot, https://github.com/metabase/metabase https://github.com/metabase/metabase
- heyzk 4y ago
  I hadn't really though about it until your comment, but Metabase really is a joy to work with.
- college_physics 4y ago
  Thanks. I don't know to what extend its "better-because-of-clojure" but I also found overtone https://github.com/overtone/overtone https://github.com/overtone/overtone which should be good fun (though the underlying synthesizer is supercollider/C++).
  - runevault 4y ago
    Overtone is interesting because the guy who really kicked it off went on to make Sonic Pi which is Ruby based[1]. [1] - https://sonic-pi.net/ https://sonic-pi.net/
    - rigoleto 4y ago
      As I understand it, the server is being switched over to Erlang https://github.com/sonic-pi-net/sonic-pi/tree/dev/app/server/beam https://github.com/sonic-pi-net/sonic-pi/tree/dev/app/server...
- jgoodhcg 4y ago
  Clerk is amazing!
jgoodhcg 4y ago
I think the Roam Research style backlinked knowledge management apps are directly enabled by datascript. Two "copy cats" (not meant to be derogatory) of Roam that are open source are: https://github.com/logseq/logseq https://github.com/logseq/logseq https://github.com/athensresearch/athens https://github.com/athensresearch/athens The underlying in memory datalog style database that can run in the browser that enables these apps https://github.com/tonsky/datascript https://github.com/tonsky/datascript
- KingMob 4y ago
  Athens is dead btw. Logseq ate their lunch.
fulafel 4y ago
Clojure is associated with the JVM platform, Java and Scala and Kotlin end user open source apps are also underrepresented relative to dev population. There are lots of OS Clojure projects but they are mostly tooling, libs, databases, etc. There are a lot of business and data stuff most of which isn't open source. Come to think of it are there many TypeScript open source apps either?
- college_physics 4y ago
  Apache has mostly jvm language projects but interestingly there is no single clojure example https://projects.apache.org/projects.html?language#C# https://projects.apache.org/projects.html?language#C# NB: Kotlin is not seen there either (fairly new) but does feature quite a few mobile apps on f-droid In any case the thread includes now a number of good project suggestions to explore
mvc 4y ago
I guess it's impossible to know what you've seen before and dismissed as not having sufficient features/attributes/popularity. Or what types of project would cause you to dig in but here are a few innovative projects using clojure that represent a fairly diverse set of interests. - https://github.com/overtone/overtone https://github.com/overtone/overtone - https://xtdb.com/ https://xtdb.com/ - https://github.com/kennytilton/matrix https://github.com/kennytilton/matrix - https://github.com/metasoarous/oz https://github.com/metasoarous/oz

maxfurman 4y ago

There is something about the language and/or community that leads folks to build their own X instead of collaborating on a common open-source version of X. Perhaps the lisp learning curve is high enough to dissuade those who want to contribute to a project but don't yet know Clojure?

ilkhan4 4y ago
I have a pet theory that it's because it's too easy to write code in. I think there needs to be just enough pain with a language or library that it becomes worthwhile to allow someone else to write X and just deal with it being imperfect if it still solves your problem.
- ballpark 4y ago
  too easy and too fun. Also, to anyone interested in this problem, look for the Worse is Better paper

doubleg 4y ago

To name a few: https://github.com/xtdb/xtdb https://github.com/xtdb/xtdb, https://github.com/nextjournal/clerk https://github.com/nextjournal/clerk, https://github.com/penpot/penpot https://github.com/penpot/penpot, https://github.com/metabase/metabase https://github.com/metabase/metabase

heyzk 4y ago
I hadn't really though about it until your comment, but Metabase really is a joy to work with.
college_physics 4y ago
Thanks. I don't know to what extend its "better-because-of-clojure" but I also found overtone https://github.com/overtone/overtone https://github.com/overtone/overtone which should be good fun (though the underlying synthesizer is supercollider/C++).
- runevault 4y ago
  Overtone is interesting because the guy who really kicked it off went on to make Sonic Pi which is Ruby based[1]. [1] - https://sonic-pi.net/ https://sonic-pi.net/
  - rigoleto 4y ago
    As I understand it, the server is being switched over to Erlang https://github.com/sonic-pi-net/sonic-pi/tree/dev/app/server/beam https://github.com/sonic-pi-net/sonic-pi/tree/dev/app/server...
jgoodhcg 4y ago
Clerk is amazing!

jgoodhcg 4y ago

I think the Roam Research style backlinked knowledge management apps are directly enabled by datascript. Two "copy cats" (not meant to be derogatory) of Roam that are open source are: https://github.com/logseq/logseq https://github.com/logseq/logseq https://github.com/athensresearch/athens https://github.com/athensresearch/athens The underlying in memory datalog style database that can run in the browser that enables these apps https://github.com/tonsky/datascript https://github.com/tonsky/datascript

KingMob 4y ago
Athens is dead btw. Logseq ate their lunch.

fulafel 4y ago

Clojure is associated with the JVM platform, Java and Scala and Kotlin end user open source apps are also underrepresented relative to dev population. There are lots of OS Clojure projects but they are mostly tooling, libs, databases, etc. There are a lot of business and data stuff most of which isn't open source. Come to think of it are there many TypeScript open source apps either?

college_physics 4y ago
Apache has mostly jvm language projects but interestingly there is no single clojure example https://projects.apache.org/projects.html?language#C# https://projects.apache.org/projects.html?language#C# NB: Kotlin is not seen there either (fairly new) but does feature quite a few mobile apps on f-droid In any case the thread includes now a number of good project suggestions to explore

mvc 4y ago

I guess it's impossible to know what you've seen before and dismissed as not having sufficient features/attributes/popularity. Or what types of project would cause you to dig in but here are a few innovative projects using clojure that represent a fairly diverse set of interests. - https://github.com/overtone/overtone https://github.com/overtone/overtone - https://xtdb.com/ https://xtdb.com/ - https://github.com/kennytilton/matrix https://github.com/kennytilton/matrix - https://github.com/metasoarous/oz https://github.com/metasoarous/oz