6 ms·

I worked previously at one of these places. It's quite interesting, they create solutions that are really only 'happy path' solutions that work in a perfect wor

by smfjaw 4y ago

I worked previously at one of these places. It's quite interesting, they create solutions that are really only 'happy path' solutions that work in a perfect world and it's honestly kind of expected. You pay $100k a week for a bunch of ivy league/top uni graduates who are very intelligent but lack any real world experience who ultimately only deliver a slide deck and some recommendations so they don't have any real liability, a 21 year old grad can't navigate a lay off round properly and can only provide these 'happy path' recommendations, similar to how a lottery winner won't make good business owner, they have all the money but not the knowledge, the Mckinsey junior has all the knowledge but no experience. Execs hire them because they don't want to be the decision maker only the proxy decision maker and can say 'McKinsey advised this was the only solution to do layoffs/restructure/unpopular thing and they're the ones that know' when in reality all the exec needed was a short stop to back them up. Obviously this only relates to their management consulting/advisory arms

kneebonian 4y ago
My understanding was they were brought in to validate the opinion of the hirer. As I once said before "This was one of those big eye opening moments for me. Consultants are hired mercenaries in coporate warfare, they don't care about you, they don't care about your company or the rivalries or the squabbaling. You pay them a bunch of money to come run roughshod over your enemies by producing reams of analysis and Powerpoints, to fling the arrows of jargon, and lay siege to your enemies employees by endlessly trapping them in meetings and then they depart. Consultants are brought in to secure your flank, to provide air cover and to act as disposable pawns in interoffice combat. They are not brought in to solve problems, to find solutions, or because of their incredibly acumen. It's because they have no loyalty or love but money."
- doctor_eval 4y ago
  I think I saw this the first time you wrote it. It’s genius, and I think perfectly accurate. (Although, speaking as a consultant, we are not all like that. It is of course the big consulting companies being hired into the big-end-of-town companies. Some of us little guys really do care about our customers.)
- Galxeagle 4y ago
  Copying my favorite quote from a different thread about data scientists: it's 'decision-based evidence-making'
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  They're also an acceptable form of corporate espionage. Mid- and higher-level consultants (there's usually one with relevant experience at least advising a team remotely, at least providing some background documents for them) will provide sets of "best practices" for you to adopt... that they learned from your competition. Anything you're doing well, they'll note, and those will be "best practices" when your competition engages them again.
bernawil 4y ago
a 21 year old grad I hope this is hyperbole or using the term "consultant" when really meaning "pawn from a staff enhancement agency" (as is often done). Because the accusation seems to be that consultancies sell merely the appearance of expertise and nobody would buy into the appearance of a 21 year old.
- _JamesA_ 4y ago
  My experience working with teams from Anderson (now Accenture) and Deloitte was that they heavily favored youth and attractiveness over knowledge and experience.
- rippercushions 4y ago
  The consultants doing the selling and schmoozing with the client's upper brass are rarely if ever the same as the grunts on the ground doing the work, who are often fresh grads.
- squokko 4y ago
  When McKinsey/Bain/BCG goes to a client, the project is usually sold to the CEO or senior exec by a 40-50 year old Director or Senior Partner at the consulting firm. The project kicks off with a "case team leader" who is the only full time person on staff, they are usually like 30, running a group of 22-28 year olds, who are doing the work with the client executives who are usually 2-4 levels down from the CEO. The partners from the consulting firm are not full time on the project and their job is to keep the project on track, present the conclusions to the client at the end, but most importantly to keep the money flowing from the client.
  - bernawil 4y ago
    Well that makes more sense. Having a couple of senior-looking people come once, drop a bunch of fresh grads "taking notes" to rake up the billable hours, then come back to deliver a "report" -and by come back I mean just forward the email- is more believable, at least in the plausible deniability sense. I was responding to this quote by OP here: ultimately only deliver a slide deck and some recommendations so they don't have any real liability , a 21 year old grad can't navigate a lay off round properly and can only provide these 'happy path' recommendations And the thought of a 21 year old dispensing some recommendations just like that was hilarious. "you should like, synergize some more, you feel me? okay bye!"

by smfjaw 4y ago

kneebonian 4y ago

My understanding was they were brought in to validate the opinion of the hirer. As I once said before "This was one of those big eye opening moments for me. Consultants are hired mercenaries in coporate warfare, they don't care about you, they don't care about your company or the rivalries or the squabbaling. You pay them a bunch of money to come run roughshod over your enemies by producing reams of analysis and Powerpoints, to fling the arrows of jargon, and lay siege to your enemies employees by endlessly trapping them in meetings and then they depart. Consultants are brought in to secure your flank, to provide air cover and to act as disposable pawns in interoffice combat. They are not brought in to solve problems, to find solutions, or because of their incredibly acumen. It's because they have no loyalty or love but money."

doctor_eval 4y ago
I think I saw this the first time you wrote it. It’s genius, and I think perfectly accurate. (Although, speaking as a consultant, we are not all like that. It is of course the big consulting companies being hired into the big-end-of-town companies. Some of us little guys really do care about our customers.)
Galxeagle 4y ago
Copying my favorite quote from a different thread about data scientists: it's 'decision-based evidence-making'
yamtaddle 4y ago
They're also an acceptable form of corporate espionage. Mid- and higher-level consultants (there's usually one with relevant experience at least advising a team remotely, at least providing some background documents for them) will provide sets of "best practices" for you to adopt... that they learned from your competition. Anything you're doing well, they'll note, and those will be "best practices" when your competition engages them again.

bernawil 4y ago

a 21 year old grad I hope this is hyperbole or using the term "consultant" when really meaning "pawn from a staff enhancement agency" (as is often done). Because the accusation seems to be that consultancies sell merely the appearance of expertise and nobody would buy into the appearance of a 21 year old.

_JamesA_ 4y ago
My experience working with teams from Anderson (now Accenture) and Deloitte was that they heavily favored youth and attractiveness over knowledge and experience.
rippercushions 4y ago
The consultants doing the selling and schmoozing with the client's upper brass are rarely if ever the same as the grunts on the ground doing the work, who are often fresh grads.
squokko 4y ago
When McKinsey/Bain/BCG goes to a client, the project is usually sold to the CEO or senior exec by a 40-50 year old Director or Senior Partner at the consulting firm. The project kicks off with a "case team leader" who is the only full time person on staff, they are usually like 30, running a group of 22-28 year olds, who are doing the work with the client executives who are usually 2-4 levels down from the CEO. The partners from the consulting firm are not full time on the project and their job is to keep the project on track, present the conclusions to the client at the end, but most importantly to keep the money flowing from the client.
- bernawil 4y ago
  Well that makes more sense. Having a couple of senior-looking people come once, drop a bunch of fresh grads "taking notes" to rake up the billable hours, then come back to deliver a "report" -and by come back I mean just forward the email- is more believable, at least in the plausible deniability sense. I was responding to this quote by OP here: ultimately only deliver a slide deck and some recommendations so they don't have any real liability , a 21 year old grad can't navigate a lay off round properly and can only provide these 'happy path' recommendations And the thought of a 21 year old dispensing some recommendations just like that was hilarious. "you should like, synergize some more, you feel me? okay bye!"