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Ive been to the office twice this year…it is both a party place and a place for work. Fridges are full of beer and fizzy drinks, there’s table tennis and games

Ive been to the office twice this year…it is both a party place and a place for work. Fridges are full of beer and fizzy drinks, there’s table tennis and games and they regularly do friday bar nights. And yet barely anyone visits the office… I WONDER WHY.

opportune 4y ago
I love these things and find them energizing when enough people show up to participate in them. Before COVID, even though a lot of people still wouldn’t ever play table tennis or stay after work for some events, you had a lot more of a real “community” at the office. When office attendance is optional and only 20-30% of people show up, these things feel so much more forced and not as fun. I know the point you are trying to make is that these are dumb distractions people don’t care about compared to WFH. But I think there is a “critical mass” aspect as well. Offices, for me, are much better to work in when there’s a community, and not just a pimped-out first-party WeWork
- mathverse 4y ago
  My point was that people do not really want to hangout with their colleagues. And if they do they do it outside of working hours anyway. No amount of freebies can create that utopia where everyone is partying together at the office.
  - opportune 4y ago
    Personally speaking, I would happily go to the office if attendance were more like 80% instead of 30%. Right now I rarely go because the attendance is so poor. So I would say that it’s not just people who want to go vs people who don’t. There is a third category that basically doesn’t see the point if the office is “just” a working environment and doesn’t have enough actual coworkers there, which I find myself in, and I suspect many others do too.
    - mathverse 4y ago
      I understand this point but there is no way to make people like you happy without forcing the majority to come. Also it makes no sense in a lot of scenarios. For example i am 800km away from the office.
      - jdminhbg 4y ago
        > I understand this point but there is no way to make people like you happy without forcing the majority to come. I think the solution will come in sorting companies into remote or in-person, rather than having every company be a mix of both.
      - opportune 4y ago
        Yes, I don’t want to force anybody to come to the office, and it obviously doesn’t make sense for those 800km away. To echo the sibling comment, long term, I think it would be good for teams to be separated based on office policy. One team for pure WFH, one for hybrid (which can mean many different things), one for mainly going to the office, etc. In my case I see it as a prisoners dilemma kind of thing. I’m officially 3/2 hybrid with unenforced 3 day attendance, along with 80% of my team. I like that I can still choose to WFH on those 3 days and my team can do the same. But we have reached an equilibrium where there’s basically no point to go to the office on those days because nobody else would be there, even though we all had the option to go officially remote (so we were all ok with going to the office). I think in that case, for example, we need at least one “actually everybody should go to the office” day for the 80% that aren’t remote
bluedino 4y ago
We recently had a 'throwback Thursday', which means everyone was invited to come to the office and see their coworkers, etc. They even had bagels! Maybe 1/5th of the office showed up. 3-4 times as many people as normal, but barely anyone.
ElevenLathe 4y ago
I would think most peoples' preference (absent pressure from management) is to, in this order: 1) stay home, dick around (or do laundry, play with children, whatever) 2) dick around at the office (ping pong, fancy beer, etc.) 3) stay home, get work done 4) get work done in the office Under mandatory office attendance, you are only really allowed to choose between 2 and 4, so naturally more people will choose 2. Under optional attendance, all choices are available, so more people will choose 1
- temporary22 4y ago
  Eh, this means that most people work for a company they are either indifferent to or for a company that they actively despise. My preference is actually 3 when I do meaningful work, 4 occasionally.
yamtaddle 4y ago
99% of US commutes are extremely unpleasant, is a big part of it, I expect. 1) I prefer working in an office. 2) I must have good public schools—non-negotiable. 3) I'm going to hate & resent my commute unless it's also physically-active time (walking, biking) and fairly safe. The cost, the unpleasantness, the lost time. The risk, for that matter. This combo means the happiest place I'm at all likely to end up is remote working. It's damn near impossible to satisfy requirement 2 and also preference 3 while working in an office. So preference 1 is sacrificed, making 3 moot and 2 easier to satisfy. It's not a hard call to make.
- jedberg 4y ago
  Interestingly Netflix would meet all three of your requirements. It's right next to a bunch of houses with amazing schools.
  - strikelaserclaw 4y ago
    maybe they forgot to mention 4) Affordable
    - jedberg 4y ago
      If you work at Netflix you can afford it. :)

opportune 4y ago

I love these things and find them energizing when enough people show up to participate in them. Before COVID, even though a lot of people still wouldn’t ever play table tennis or stay after work for some events, you had a lot more of a real “community” at the office. When office attendance is optional and only 20-30% of people show up, these things feel so much more forced and not as fun. I know the point you are trying to make is that these are dumb distractions people don’t care about compared to WFH. But I think there is a “critical mass” aspect as well. Offices, for me, are much better to work in when there’s a community, and not just a pimped-out first-party WeWork

mathverse 4y ago
My point was that people do not really want to hangout with their colleagues. And if they do they do it outside of working hours anyway. No amount of freebies can create that utopia where everyone is partying together at the office.
- opportune 4y ago
  Personally speaking, I would happily go to the office if attendance were more like 80% instead of 30%. Right now I rarely go because the attendance is so poor. So I would say that it’s not just people who want to go vs people who don’t. There is a third category that basically doesn’t see the point if the office is “just” a working environment and doesn’t have enough actual coworkers there, which I find myself in, and I suspect many others do too.
  - mathverse 4y ago
    I understand this point but there is no way to make people like you happy without forcing the majority to come. Also it makes no sense in a lot of scenarios. For example i am 800km away from the office.
    - jdminhbg 4y ago
      > I understand this point but there is no way to make people like you happy without forcing the majority to come. I think the solution will come in sorting companies into remote or in-person, rather than having every company be a mix of both.
    - opportune 4y ago
      Yes, I don’t want to force anybody to come to the office, and it obviously doesn’t make sense for those 800km away. To echo the sibling comment, long term, I think it would be good for teams to be separated based on office policy. One team for pure WFH, one for hybrid (which can mean many different things), one for mainly going to the office, etc. In my case I see it as a prisoners dilemma kind of thing. I’m officially 3/2 hybrid with unenforced 3 day attendance, along with 80% of my team. I like that I can still choose to WFH on those 3 days and my team can do the same. But we have reached an equilibrium where there’s basically no point to go to the office on those days because nobody else would be there, even though we all had the option to go officially remote (so we were all ok with going to the office). I think in that case, for example, we need at least one “actually everybody should go to the office” day for the 80% that aren’t remote

bluedino 4y ago

We recently had a 'throwback Thursday', which means everyone was invited to come to the office and see their coworkers, etc. They even had bagels! Maybe 1/5th of the office showed up. 3-4 times as many people as normal, but barely anyone.

ElevenLathe 4y ago

I would think most peoples' preference (absent pressure from management) is to, in this order: 1) stay home, dick around (or do laundry, play with children, whatever) 2) dick around at the office (ping pong, fancy beer, etc.) 3) stay home, get work done 4) get work done in the office Under mandatory office attendance, you are only really allowed to choose between 2 and 4, so naturally more people will choose 2. Under optional attendance, all choices are available, so more people will choose 1

temporary22 4y ago
Eh, this means that most people work for a company they are either indifferent to or for a company that they actively despise. My preference is actually 3 when I do meaningful work, 4 occasionally.

yamtaddle 4y ago

99% of US commutes are extremely unpleasant, is a big part of it, I expect. 1) I prefer working in an office. 2) I must have good public schools—non-negotiable. 3) I'm going to hate & resent my commute unless it's also physically-active time (walking, biking) and fairly safe. The cost, the unpleasantness, the lost time. The risk, for that matter. This combo means the happiest place I'm at all likely to end up is remote working. It's damn near impossible to satisfy requirement 2 and also preference 3 while working in an office. So preference 1 is sacrificed, making 3 moot and 2 easier to satisfy. It's not a hard call to make.

jedberg 4y ago
Interestingly Netflix would meet all three of your requirements. It's right next to a bunch of houses with amazing schools.
- strikelaserclaw 4y ago
  maybe they forgot to mention 4) Affordable
  - jedberg 4y ago
    If you work at Netflix you can afford it. :)